ProSoundWeb Community

Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => The Basement => Topic started by: Andrew Broughton on June 10, 2021, 07:25:19 PM

Title: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Andrew Broughton on June 10, 2021, 07:25:19 PM
https://youtu.be/0mGhhdPgXG8 (https://youtu.be/0mGhhdPgXG8)
Title: Re: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Brian Jojade on June 10, 2021, 07:40:32 PM
You can't always get what you want.... x100.
Title: Re: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Landon Lewsaw on June 10, 2021, 09:08:41 PM
Funny, that popped up in my feed today and I watched it.  Looked like the switch took it harder than the fuse!
Title: Re: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Jeff Lelko on June 10, 2021, 09:11:52 PM
Yep, it popped its way into my suggestions today as well.  Making sparks fly is fun, but building a “singing” Tesla coil has been on my build list for years!
Title: Re: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Dave Garoutte on June 10, 2021, 09:28:16 PM

https://www.wimp.com/tesla-coil-quartet-performs-cover-of-get-lucky/
Title: Re: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Keith Broughton on June 11, 2021, 06:48:03 AM
https://youtu.be/0mGhhdPgXG8 (https://youtu.be/0mGhhdPgXG8)
No Health and Safety issues with this :o ;D
Title: Re: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Dave Garoutte on June 11, 2021, 12:14:16 PM
No Health and Safety issues with this :o ;D
Hey, you're allowed to do anything on youtube.
Title: Re: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Brian Jojade on June 11, 2021, 01:28:15 PM
No Health and Safety issues with this :o ;D

There are no health and safety issues watching the video.  Trying this at home might not be the best idea though.
Title: Re: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Jason Glass on June 11, 2021, 03:35:44 PM
https://youtu.be/0mGhhdPgXG8 (https://youtu.be/0mGhhdPgXG8)

 :o

"Popping" seems a tad bit understating!
Title: Re: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Erik Jerde on June 11, 2021, 05:15:08 PM
So anyone know what the application for a 5000A fuse is?

It's interesting that it's just a bunch of 100A in parallel.  Anyone know if that's how all the fuses larger than 100A are built?
Title: Re: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Dave Garoutte on June 11, 2021, 06:33:58 PM
So anyone know what the application for a 5000A fuse is?
It's what you need to keep Lucas electric on your Brit bike from failing.
Title: Re: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Ike Zimbel on June 11, 2021, 06:54:30 PM
You can't always get what you want.... x100.
Ha! I got this one  :P...not sure who else did. AND, I didn't even watch the video :P
Title: Re: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Chris Hindle on June 12, 2021, 06:41:20 AM
It's what you need to keep Lucas electric on your Brit bike from failing.
Why do Englishmen like warm beer?
It's because they have Lucas refrigerators.

Lucas, the Prince of Darkness

Back in my mechanics days, i made good coin getting the smoke back into MG and Triumph "electrics"....
Chris.
Title: Re: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Tim McCulloch on June 12, 2021, 10:37:53 AM
Why do Englishmen like warm beer?
It's because they have Lucas refrigerators.

Lucas, the Prince of Darkness

Back in my mechanics days, i made good coin getting the smoke back into MG and Triumph "electrics"....
Chris.

Lucas in Triumph - every wire the same color.  Bah, humbug.
Title: Re: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Dave Garoutte on June 12, 2021, 10:55:39 AM
Why do Englishmen like warm beer?
It's because they have Lucas refrigerators.

Lucas, the Prince of Darkness

Back in my mechanics days, i made good coin getting the smoke back into MG and Triumph "electrics"....
Chris.
Lucas also invented the flashdark.
Title: Re: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Chris Grimshaw on June 12, 2021, 11:05:52 AM
So anyone know what the application for a 5000A fuse is?


Output fuse on a Macrotech.

More seriously, a family member works on newspaper printing presses. Some of those drives are rated for 1MW. Even the medium-sized drives won't turn with anything less than 240V 3-phase applied.

Some industrial stuff, then, might require a fuse of that kind of size.

Chris
Title: Re: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Frank Koenig on June 12, 2021, 11:15:04 AM
So anyone know what the application for a 5000A fuse is?

It's interesting that it's just a bunch of 100A in parallel.  Anyone know if that's how all the fuses larger than 100A are built?

Dunno for sure but my guess is that you'll find them in low-voltage, high-current applications such as electroplating. Interrupting that much current at high voltage requires more advanced methods of suppressing the arc. --Frank

I'll add that high-power BEVs can run ~1000 A at ~400 V when you floor it, so that's getting up there.
Title: Re: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Craig Hauber on June 12, 2021, 12:08:15 PM
Dunno for sure but my guess is that you'll find them in low-voltage, high-current applications such as electroplating. Interrupting that much current at high voltage requires more advanced methods of suppressing the arc. --Frank

I'll add that high-power BEVs can run ~1000 A at ~400 V when you floor it, so that's getting up there.

The original ubiquitous "non-battery" EV, (commonly known as a diesel-electric locomotive), average around 3.2MW from their onboard power plant -I bet there's some large current fuses in those. 
Not to mention some interesting computer controlled traction control via very large solid-state motor drives.

-I'm always been fascinated by anything that starts with logic-level voltages in microscopic silicon ending up in control of stunning amounts of raw current! 

Do they have multi-megawatt breakers that wouldn't need contacts rebuilt after opening (especially with DC)?  Possibly would be too large and heavy for anything other than stationary power-plant or substation usage?

Title: Re: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Chris Hindle on June 12, 2021, 01:14:55 PM
Lucas in Triumph - every wire the same color.  Bah, humbug.
I had to "fix" the tail lights on an late 60's MG something or other.
EVERY FUCKIN WIRE WAS WHITE!
No tracers, no nuthing.
Way to go Lucas.....................
Chris.
Title: Re: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Keith Broughton on June 12, 2021, 07:23:57 PM
:o

"Popping" seems a tad bit understating!
They are English after all, so, understated just a tad. :D
Title: Re: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Russell Ault on June 13, 2021, 12:20:15 AM
The original ubiquitous "non-battery" EV, (commonly known as a diesel-electric locomotive), average around 3.2MW from their onboard power plant -I bet there's some large current fuses in those. 
Not to mention some interesting computer controlled traction control via very large solid-state motor drives.

-I'm always been fascinated by anything that starts with logic-level voltages in microscopic silicon ending up in control of stunning amounts of raw current! 

Do they have multi-megawatt breakers that wouldn't need contacts rebuilt after opening (especially with DC)?  Possibly would be too large and heavy for anything other than stationary power-plant or substation usage?

Judging from the manual for the GE Dash 8 Series (https://heritagerailalliance.wildapricot.org/resources/Resources/Technical%20Manuals/GE%20Dash%208%20Manual.pdf), it appears that "motor cut-out switches" act as over-current (as well as flash-over) protection devices, and there's no indication that there are any precautions for their use (beyond, potentially, a horsepower de-rating when operating the locomotvie with only the remaining motors). For what it's worth, a lot of DC diesel-electric locomotives have a nominal maximum operating current of ~1000 A or less, and that's across all traction motors, so any individual over-current device should "only" need to be able to handle no more than about 250 A DC (which is still no mean feat, but a far cry from 5 kVa).

And it looks like these (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJqb37CJrpM) will easily do a MW, and they aren't even that big. (Strictly speaking this isn't a "breaker", but it could easily be used as part of an over-current protection system.)

-Russ
Title: Re: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Steve-White on June 13, 2021, 12:52:50 AM
I built a few Tesla coils back in the high school days.  Two of them worked out well, one would push 12" sparks into the air.

One of the guys in my Electronics class built a huge Tesla coil with a secondary about 8' tall.  Never got much more than 12-18" arcs from it - something was off on the tuning or coupling - probably had too much air space between the primary and secondary coils.  It either was losing it in the coupling or the capacitance was off on the primary and it didn't hit resonance.

https://soulspiritguidance.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/CPxgoNnXAAEmvRf.jpg

What he was up to at Wardenclyffe has always fascinated me.

 
Title: Re: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Stephen Swaffer on June 14, 2021, 01:13:06 PM
My facility had a fused main disconnect-with 3000 amp fuses.  We replaced it with a breaker a couple of years ago.

Often, fuses are a better choice to reduce arc flash, because they can interrupt current faster than breakers.  Unfortunately, when you get into fuses that large, the available fault current may not be high enough the quickly blow the fuse.  IIRC the fault current I calculated was somewhere around 12,000-15,000 amps-which put the clearing time for the fuses in questions around 2-3 seconds.  I'm thinking it would seem like a lot longer than 2-3 seconds in the event of a fault like that!
Title: Re: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Daniel Levi on June 14, 2021, 03:38:03 PM
We now need a Photon and Bigclive collaboration, that would be fun.
Title: Re: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Russell Ault on June 14, 2021, 03:48:55 PM
{...} Often, fuses are a better choice to reduce arc flash, because they can interrupt current faster than breakers. {...}

This is fascinating to me; does this just apply to thermally-triggered breakers, or is this true for any reset-able over-current devices?

-Russ
Title: Re: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Brian Jojade on June 15, 2021, 01:09:22 AM
My facility had a fused main disconnect-with 3000 amp fuses.  We replaced it with a breaker a couple of years ago.

Often, fuses are a better choice to reduce arc flash, because they can interrupt current faster than breakers.  Unfortunately, when you get into fuses that large, the available fault current may not be high enough the quickly blow the fuse.  IIRC the fault current I calculated was somewhere around 12,000-15,000 amps-which put the clearing time for the fuses in questions around 2-3 seconds.  I'm thinking it would seem like a lot longer than 2-3 seconds in the event of a fault like that!

The job of a fuse is to protect things.  In the case of a massive fault, 2-3 seconds would probably be fast enough that it would fail before any connecting lines heated enough to be damaged.  Just like the fuse, a piece of wire can handle a LOT more current than it's rated for for short durations.  It's a factor of time vs heat generated and dissipated.
Title: Re: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Stephen Swaffer on June 15, 2021, 12:24:21 PM
This is fascinating to me; does this just apply to thermally-triggered breakers, or is this true for any reset-able over-current devices?

-Russ

I am sure it would apply for any resettable device-there is a finite inertia of the mechanisms that must be overcome and the larger the current the heavier those mechanisms are.  The disconnect in the fused switchgear was a massive switch.  I suppose I should dig back into my physics books and look at the formulas for momentum and acceleration-but you are looking at very small fractions of a second clearing time.

Brian-you are correct.  I was picturing in my minds eye an arc flash event lasting 2 or 3 seconds.
Title: Re: Popping a 5000 amp fuse
Post by: Jared Bartimus on July 02, 2021, 06:52:15 PM
No Health and Safety issues with this :o ;D

He actually has some pretty decent Health and Safety practices.  Including using a pneumatic switch to activate his high voltage supplies.  He has a video where he went through his other "policies" when playing with electricity.