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I do small mainly indoor live events for bands, currently running 2 elx118p's with 4 elx112p's ( 2 each side stacked on top of eachother on top of the subs) and finding the system as a whole a bit lackluster especially when it comes to vocals etc

The system does get pushed to its limit which isn't ideal especially as I'm bound to do more outdoor work and heat/overheating could become an issue

So I'd like to replace the tops with 2 decent tops (1 each side) that can give me a bit more headroom than the current setup. I'm not looking at going mad and spending too much (may very well buy used) but wondering what people would recommend as a good upgrade path?

Is there a decent set of EVs that'll match the looks of the subs but be powerful enough to give me more headroom without getting near to limits?

Interested in people's thoughts...

If you have any interest in JBL passive gear (you'll need some great amps to power them), check out the Marketplace forum, 4th post down, by Bob Kidd...I don't know where either of you live, though...

Selling off my JBL 725s, some 728s, 835s and 828s

725s $1k each
728s $1500 each
835s $1250 each
828s $1600 each

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That should be take away 1ms or 2 to account for the delay that the processing will add.

Delaying the mains to the backline can really help to tighten everything up. At least it has worked great for me. I also am careful to do the best as I can to time align the Front Fills to the house system and put in them only what will be missing in that area.

Thank you for the correction .

You are, of course, correct.  I should have said subtract 1 or 2 mSec for digital mixer processing delay (which is like delay that we didn't ask for but get anyway).

You may want to rule out a compressor and/or limiter setting on those inputs; disable the compressor/limiter.

They are selling 4 of these for $1k total.

That's an OK price.  Add a Powersoft T604 (lows) and T304 (highs) and you're into each speaker for around $1,675.   

They are over 200# each though, and old technology.  With 90 degree horizontal horns, you're limited to one per side, unless you're outdoors and need outfills. 

Another option, 90 degree horizontal, larger format horn, loud, higher quality than the common MI options, is the RCF TT25A.  It's about double the price, but new, sounds quite good, and is only 58#. 

Also in longer terms would I be best getting a pair of 15"s or save the cash and get a pair of 12's as I'll always be running a pair of 18 subs anyway, ev's for now but depending where I go with tops I would prob get the matching subs later down the line...

A couple thoughts - don't get hung up with keeping subs and tops in the same brand.  While the processing (crossovers/delay/phase traces) typically makes them easier to deploy, what happens too often is you end up compromising one, typically the subwoofers, just to have the false "benefit" of a uniform brand.  If you mix brands, you will need SmaartLive (which you want anyway, and learn how to use the Magnitude, Impulse, and Phase traces) to align them. 

12" instead of 15" - is a good rule of thumb, but it's not universal, especially with brands that have HF horns that are large and powerful enough to crossover at lower frequencies.  IE, RCF. 

SPL headroom is your friend.  Too much - just turn down a bit.  Too little - compromised sound from being buried in the limiters, or even damaged components. 

As others have mentioned, EV has shifted toward more of an MI brand than Pro, especially for self-powered speakers.  I'd look at RCF, or for a real step up - passive (Danley, TW Audio, even the QRx mentioned above is pro-ish). 

"When you have more than one box covering the same area, you WILL have interference," this principle also applies to multiple drivers within the same box?

An example is what I have: the DB Technologies IG4T. 4 drivers deliver the low-mid frequencies. When they are stacked, they stack so that the horns are closest together.

So (overly simplistically), although there is some destructive interference, it is taken advantage of in a way that helps create a more controlled, cylindrical dispersion pattern? And that you can make it so the inverse-square law is tricked a bit by the vertical spread of the drivers?

*barring the use of a horn to combine multiple drivers

Interference from the same box is dependent on frequency, driver spacing, the listener's angle off axis and distance.

The simplistic line array "wedge of cheese" cylindrical dispersion pattern and 3dB drop per doubling of distance only applies to the destructive interference in the near field, which varies with frequency.

The DB Technologies IG4T uses a vertically asymmetric high frequency horn above 1100 Hz. The horn's coverage area is directed slightly downward.
When two IG4T are stacked horn to horn, their -6dB coverage pattern results in ~ 0dB on axis constructive interference above ~ 1100 Hz.

For a stacked pair of  IGT4, (75.28 inches tall, just under 2 meters) you are out of the near field on-axis destructive interference zone at ~5.5 feet (1.68 meters) at 100 Hz, and ~60 feet (18.5 meters) at 1100 Hz, using 1130 feet (344.2 meters) per second as the speed of sound (at 72 degrees Fahrenheit, 21.7 Celsius).
If it's hotter, the near field is closer, colder is further.


From:
https://www.prosoundtraining.com/2010/03/17/line-array-limitations/

The near field distance can be defined by the following relationship:
D=1.57 L squared/λ

where

D is the distance to the far field transition
L is the physical length of the line source
λ = the wavelength of the frequency in question (all lengths in identical units).

Beyond this distance the listener is in the far field and there is 6 dB drop in level per doubling of distance. The transition distance can be quite long at short wavelengths, that is, high frequencies, but it is shorter at low frequencies. For each octave lower in frequency, the transition distance is cut in half.

Art





 

+1 for something else must be amiss. With a properly sized and gained PA and master fader at unity, I find the X32 gain knob at 12 o'clock typically gets me what I need from 58s when used correctly.

Something isn't right.  When you solo a mic channel, what does it look like on the main meters?  When you are not soloing anything, what are the main L/R meters reading?  Are the vocalist more than a few inches from the mics?  These mics work best when used close, but that amount of gain shouldn't be necessary.  What is the signal chain from the console to the speakers?  EQ or processing, amps settings, or powered speaker settings, etc?