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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Renard Hurtado on March 10, 2011, 03:48:23 PM
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Hi All,
I was looking forward to this review of the new Yamaha DSR loudspeakers. ( I was and am hoping for a poor man`PS-15)
http://www.harmonycentral.com/docs/DOC-1937
Pretty soon I will have some to do my own shooting against my two favorites: RCF ART-322A and QSC -HPR-122i.
Any of have heard these new Yamah soeakers, with the Nexo influence ??
Renard from Curacao
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I demo'd a pair of the DSR15's this morning, and played with the 12's last week.
In short, from a sould quality perspective, they sound fastastic - they are much more then a "powered version of the club series" and in my market priced favorably vs. the QSC K-series I already own lots of.
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I demo'd a pair of the DSR15's this morning, and played with the 12's last week.
In short, from a sould quality perspective, they sound fastastic - they are much more then a "powered version of the club series" and in my market priced favorably vs. the QSC K-series I already own lots of.
Would you care to expand on this. I too am familiar with the QSC K series, and have been looking for a comparison to the yamahs. Aside from price, how do they compare? It appears that you like the sound of the Yamaha DSR... how is the output compared to the QSC? Any other observations on them side by side?
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I have been looking into the DSR's and will buy either these or the JBL PRX612's this weekend.
I have auditioned the K12's, DSR112, and JBL PRX 612 side by side.
The K12's were the first to clip, and as they were pushed sounded harsh and thin. If you played them below their limit, they sounded better. At medium volumes they sounded really good .... but so did the other speakers.
The PRX's sounded evenly equalized and did well all the way up to where they clip. They sounded good the whole way and didn't do anything nasty when clipping. They liked being pushed.
The DSR's had more definition in vocals and were a little punchier than the PRX's. The box is equalized with a bit of bottom and top eq. The bottom was pleasing, but the top was too much IMHO. These speakers went further than the others despite the SPL equality in their specifications. The top end got harsh to my ears.
I didn't try to equalize any of these speakers, so I am making another trip this weekend with the intention of seeing how the speakers sound once they are equalized.
The DSR's were without a doubt the most pleasing for vocal clarity. I just need to see if I can tame some of the high end.
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The yammies have a 2" voice coil hi freq. diaphram. The QSC and JBL boxes you mention have 1.7 or 1.75" v.c. 's on highs. All other things being roughly equal, the Yammies have more output capability in the high end. This gives better clarity at higher volumes. Yes they will go loud enough to hurt your ears, but it's relatively cheap and easy to turn something down a little bit. When you need more up and you don't have it-that's difficult and exspensive. That said the QSC and JBL boxes are quality, well balanced, good sounding boxes, but if your after loud clear vocals your going to have a little easier time getting there w/ the Yammers.
Happy sailing
Chuck
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@chuck clark,
Good point about the available high end and vocal clarity.
The other thing about my auditioning is that the speaker room at GC is a very small room. What would be ideal would be for the speakers to be auditioned in a bigger setting and from a bit further away to get a feel of how they would sound at a venue of say 200 people (sufficient for most weekend warriors who don't tour).
Another person reviewed these here: http://www.guitarcenter.com/Yamaha-DSR112-Active-Loudspeaker-106226970-i1546108.gc#customer-reviews
Quickly, popular girl QSC K12's have unnatural top end coloration and become harsh when pushed; good at being loud. JBL PRX612M's very good mid-range performance (warmer than K12's), especially with guitar sounds-not so much with vocals. Does loud just as well, lightest weight and lowest price point in the class, so far. This is based on living with both in many live-sound situations this past year, and you notice things. GC made me buy the Yamaha DSR112 from their online
store to check -it-out, since they didn't stock it at their local brick & mortar. Ran it against the others at a few live shows, and you KNEW which side of the stage it was on. Very consistent response top to bottom; detailed and smooth on everything, widest sound stage and goes lower than the others, very hi-fi like. Bigger voice-coils, lower crossover point, 1300w on tap (850w/450t) doesn't hurt either. The DSR112 kept on going when the QSC & JBL ran outta gas (clipped). Oh, and ran cooler too. Okay, so it has a fatter ass (47#) and costs a little more, but man it sounds so good after the others pass out. If you want to save your back and some money, get the JBL; if you want GREAT sound, get the Yamaha DSR112. Yeah, I like it!
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The yammies have a 2" voice coil hi freq. diaphram. The QSC and JBL boxes you mention have 1.7 or 1.75" v.c. 's on highs. All other things being roughly equal, the Yammies have more output capability in the high end.
Of course the size of the voice coil does not tell the whole story on output capability in the high end. The 2408 driver used is the same used in some of the JBL VRX speakers, so I'm sure it is of high quality.
That said, I have not heard the Yamahas. Does anyone know what drivers they use?(who makes them)
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When listening to the 3 speakers mentioned, are you measuring SPL? To me, it isn't what they sound like when I have exceeded their capabilities but more will they go loud enough for the job.
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Of course the size of the voice coil does not tell the whole story on output capability in the high end. The 2408 driver used is the same used in some of the JBL VRX speakers, so I'm sure it is of high quality.
That said, I have not heard the Yamahas. Does anyone know what drivers they use?(who makes them)
I agree. The real test is in the ears of the beholder ;)
From Yamaha's website:
Transducers were scrupulously selected, then thoroughly customized. The waveguide horn was designed and optimized for the DSR Series requirements.
Doesn't sound like they are proprietary .... at least not completely. "Thoroughly customized" could mean they stamped it with a "Yamaha" logo ;)
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When listening to the 3 speakers mentioned, are you measuring SPL? To me, it isn't what they sound like when I have exceeded their capabilities but more will they go loud enough for the job.
Nope. Not listening to SPL; however, it is a good thing to have headroom. Typically, more headroom means less distortion at reasonable volumes. It also means that if I need to do something outside, the speaker will have more room on top trying to keep up with my folded horns ;)
I agree with your general idea though. Sound quality at normal gig levels is the most important factor. I typically play for ~75-150 people in a bar, with the occasional outside 300 person gig.
If I had to, I could pick up 2 more tops to do bigger venues. At that point, the PRX's may start looking good since at 34lbs vs 47lbs, two on each side (on poles above the subs) starts to make a bit more difference.
I was planning on testing with some CD music and my venerable EV ND767a microphone at GC while tweaking the channel eq parametrics to get the best tone from each speaker. I will report back what I find and what I went with and why.
The reality is that all 3 of these speakers are good (much better than what I see being used in 90% of the local bar bands). They are not quite what I could call high end like Meyer or even JBL's SRX line, but they are in a completely different league than the JRX, Behringer, Carvin, B52 junk I see lots of bands using :-[
In fact, they are generally better sounding that some passive speakers that have much better drivers than they do simply because not many weekend warriors have the knowledge to properly setup the eq and digital crossover correctly to get the most of their drivers and amplifiers.
Of course, even with a good matched set of powered speakers and subs, you have to have enough ear to get the mix and channel eq's right ..... which sadly many do not.
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Anyone play with the sub yet?
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Nope. Not listening to SPL; however, it is a good thing to have headroom. Typically, more headroom means less distortion at reasonable volumes. It also means that if I need to do something outside, the speaker will have more room on top trying to keep up with my folded horns ;)
If you don't know how loud they are, how do you know what headroom you have? All you seem to have measured is what output of a mixer causes the red lights to come on in speaker. I am not sure how I could use that information in the absence of SPL (and not in a GC demo room).
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I agree. The real test is in the ears of the beholder ;)
From Yamaha's website:Doesn't sound like they are proprietary .... at least not completely. "Thoroughly customized" could mean they stamped it with a "Yamaha" logo ;)
I realise you were probably being half serious. I suspect that Yamaha does modify whatever drivers they are buying. For many years Meyer Sound used to buy various OEM drivers and modify them quite bit. Now they manufacture them in house.
The funny thing is that Yamaha used to manufacture all their own drivers and did a pretty good job of that and designing the horns, enclosures and crossovers for those drivers.
I'll be interested in hearing some of these new offerings.
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Ok, so off to GC I went with CD and microphone in hand.
First thing I did was wander around the speaker room and spin each speaker around to feel the weight and to ensure the settings were flat. First thing I notice is ... boy, the PRX are MUCH lighter than the DSRs.
Next up, some CD music and a short lesson from the GC rep on how to use the parametric eq on the Presonus digital mixer....
I flipped speakers back and fourth, I equalized and tried again, I pushed them, I reeled them in, tried every position in the room and every volume level.
At the end of the trial, what I found was that I could make the PRX sound much better with some eq. A little more punch with some eq in the 200Hz, a little more clarity with a bit of 6K.
The Yamahas .... well just a little off the top was all it took.
After all that, the story really was that the DSRs always sounded more full and more clear. They always maintained better punch. They simply sounded better.
After that, I plugged in my mic and gave it a song
This test didn't need much time. The DSRs were simply in a class above the PRX with respect to vocal clarity and warmth.
So, I am now the proud owner of a pair of DSR112's. I guess I will have to get used to carrying 47lb speakers instead of 82lb ones Of course, 34lbs would be better
I will be putting them head to head with my venerable Klipsch KP301's. I am already convinced that they will positively blow away my drummers CVA's.
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Anyone play with the sub yet?
The sub was... Less impressive IMHO. Not bad sounding by any means for what it is and costs, but I was hoping for more... Like a 2KW sub, but not when it costs so little. To be fair, The QSC k-sub suffers from the same comparison with a K10/12 on top of it, but the yamaha sub costs Less then the K-sub.
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The sub was... Less impressive IMHO. Not bad sounding by any means for what it is and costs, but I was hoping for more... Like a 2KW sub, but not when it costs so little. To be fair, The QSC k-sub suffers from the same comparison with a K10/12 on top of it, but the yamaha sub costs Less then the K-sub.
I agree. The sub is good, but not "impressive". I have heard the JBL PRX618 XLF and it would rate is "impressive". The Yorkville LS800 .... "Really Impressive" ;)
I have just finished going through some testing acoustically with my new DSR112's. They sound fantastic for that purpose. With no eq (other than the contour button provided), a Taylor (with Fishman electronics), a EV ND767a, and a TC Helicon Harmony G, I went through a few songs I normally would play in an acoustic gig.
I would normally use a small mixer so I could channel eq the guitar and vocal separately, but I wanted to see how this minimalistic setup sounded (less is more .... right?).
At GC, I thought that the highs were a bit strong and harsh at high volumes; however, playing acoustically, even with the boosted eq setting, there was absolutely zero harshness. They were very pleasing and warm at as high a volume as one can get with an acoustic electric guitar in the same room (not very loud compared to a rock band granted).
Additionally, I was worried about the weight; however, I was able to easily carry and lift both speakers on top of my Klipsch (which were above my folded horns) with little effort. Of course, I am not exactly a little guy either at 220lbs 6ft ;) Still, moving my Klipsch KP301s up onto the subs required considerable effort and while I could do it if it was an emergency, I usually have 2 people to do it.
So far, so good. I plan on testing them against the Klipsch tonight. I have high hopes ;)
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I've been recently using a pair of DSR2115 tower cabinets, plus a pair of DSR118W sub units, and so far I'm extremely happy with the overall sound quality.
The DSR2115 are hefty beasties, weighing in at close to 8st each, but that's because there are 2 x 15" speakers in there, and both have ferrite magnets. But I personally find the 'warmer' tone preferrable. Somebody previously posted on here that they felt that the horns were quite bright, yet I've had no problem at all with them in those higher frequency ranges. I've checked them out with pink noise and they measure a fairly balanced response within that upper range. However there is a 3dB drop around the crossover point of 1.7K. A 3dB boost at 1.6kHz on the main front of house graphic EQ soon puts that right.
The DSR118W are fabulous sub units. Great response, lovely tone, work perfectly along with the DSR towers. Once again, there's a 3dB drop around the crossover position of 120Hz, and again a boost of 3dB at 125Hz balances that out perfectly. The 18" speakers in these also have ferrite magnets, making them heavier than some of the other similar units currently on the market, but with a weight of a little over 6st then they are still very portable.
The tower cabinets are rated at 138dB, whereas the subs are rated at 132dB. To balance them out, turn the sub unit to the recommended max level (12 o'clock) position, and back the tower cabinet slightly lower to around the 11 o'clock position. With those settings then the full P.A. stacks give a well-balanced overall sound.
Obviously different mixings desks will slightly color the tonal-response of the speaker cabinets. I'm presently using an Allen & Heath GL2400 with this set-up, and combined with the Yamaha DSR cabs the entire system responds excellently for the club environments that I tend to work in.
The full stack (DSR2115 plus DSR118W) measures a little under 6' in height. To get the horns projecting above head height, I use an empty 8U flight case inbetween the cabinets, then rachet-strap the 2 cabs together to make the full stack more stable. Works for me.
So far I've no complaints about this particular DSR system. I've been using it for the last couple of months, and I'm delighted with the results. For the price range that it's in, then I personally feel that I've gotten excellent value for my money.
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While the K12 doesn't seem to compare favorably to the DSR, how about the KW122? Anyone compare that to the Yamaha and JBL box? thanks.
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While the K12 doesn't seem to compare favorably to the DSR, how about the KW122? Anyone compare that to the Yamaha and JBL box? thanks.
Yep.
The KW122 is a very good box. I thought it was equal to the DSR112 (although your ears may not think so depending on your taste) It was also significantly more expensive ($1100.00 ea vs $800.00 ea).
You should be able to go audition both the KW122's and the DSR112's at your local GC side-by-side for yourself.