ProSoundWeb Community
Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: jesseweiss on December 09, 2018, 01:29:02 PM
-
All of a sudden lost 5 channels into mains at last night's gig. Had signal, other channels were fine, and troublesome channels worked in aux busses. After a few minutes of searching, just used different channels and were good to go.
It's possible it was a glitch and reinitializing will fix it, but if it's an issue with the board I may look to replace rather than repair.
If that happens I'm open to upgrading, so here are thoughts.
If we stay with the stage box form factor I'm considering:
Replace XR18 - cheap and easy
Mackie new DL series- 32= more channels
Qu-SB - upgrade features plus expandable
X32 Rack - upgrade features plus expandability
The band does seem to like the rack form factor, although it does make them less involved in setup (they don't seem to want to learn). So there's the option of an X32 or similar with digital snake option.
We're just a weekend warrior 4 piece cover band, although we do some outdoor community gigs and sometimes have other musicians and singers with us. 2 guitars, bass, drums (sometimes acoustic/sometimes my ekit), and all 4 of us sing.
Thoughts?
-
I’ll throw in a solid vote for a Qu-PAC. A standout feature to me compared some other offerings is that you can run the unit from the front panel touchscreen. That can be a lifesaver if you lose WiFi or suspect network problems. I was very happy with mine for what I did with it. Hope this helps!
-
I was a fan of the MR12, but I recently bought a UI24 on sale and I'm in love with the improvement in sound quality. Also, has a built in web server and runs on HTML and not an app, so it's device agnostic.
The built in wifi still sucks.
-
I have a QU-PAC which I carry as a back up for my QU24. As was stated, the ability to run the unit from the front panel makes these units stand apart from the other rack mount mixers.
I play in a 5 piece band and when I run sound from the stage I use a QSC TouchMix 16. It is very compact and the form factor is great for an on stage mixer. It is much easier to navigate from the built in control panel compared to the QU PAC.
TouchMix comes with a USB wifi dongle that gives you all the mixer's functions on iPAD control. It also has the ability to multi track record to a USB drive.
-
Soundcraft UI24
-
First I'd determine what happened to those 5 channels. It's *very* unlikely that you'd loose only 5 - input circuits tend to get built in groups of 2, 4, or 8... so the odd number is a red flag that this more likely pilot error than electronic failure.
Do you have a pre-issue show file saved on a USB stick? I'd do a full factory re-set of the mixer and see if those channels come back (my guess is yes). Then reload the saved file and see if the channels remain active.
As there are almost no user-adjustable controls to fail your mixer is likely still under warranty so if it really did fail, call the Lost Wages CARE facility and get an RMA for the repair/replacement.
If your band is accustomed to the work flow, replacing it with an X32 Rack would be the logical step.
-
I agree Tim. Channels 1-4 went out which made me worried, but when I moved vocals to 5-8, just 7 was out.
I have scenes saved on my laptop and online so I'm definitely going to start with total reinitialize, test, and then reload scenes and retest.
I didn't think to try a different scene or snapshot since I have several! Heat of the moment stress, etc... since this happened at the very end of sound check and a few minutes before we were supposed to start. Was working fine for about 30 minutes and then boom.
We don't play so often that I can't easily rebuild scenes and snapshots if needed.
-
If we stay with the stage box form factor I'm considering:
Replace XR18 - cheap and easy
Mackie new DL series- 32= more channels
Qu-SB - upgrade features plus expandable
X32 Rack - upgrade features plus expandability
I will go against the grain. One of our mixers is an X32 Rack that we purchased back in April of 2014. We have not had any problems with it. We do only use it about 40 days or so a year. As I said no problems and I love the flexibility.
Bill
-
Very interesting. I don't have the XR18, but a friend of mine does, and he had a very similar problem last week.
He said he all of a sudden lost a couple channels on his XR18. He didn't tell me which channel numbers, but he just pulled the cable and put into another channel and it was fine. He had input signal. I told him to check the routing, etc.
Was there a recent firmware upgrade to the XR series?
If you're looking to replace, I love the X32 features (I have 3 of them).
I would love to try a Ui24, but really need true Xover filters for me to abandon the X32.
-
I will go against the grain. One of our mixers is an X32 Rack that we purchased back in April of 2014. We have not had any problems with it. We do only use it about 40 days or so a year. As I said no problems and I love the flexibility.
Bill
That's been my personal experience as well. Purchased mid-2015.
-
I went from an XR18 to a Soundcraft Ui24r. It's a significant upgrade, IMO. More channels, more routing options, better sounding, much easier recording, more auxes, usable built in wife (though still fairly weak), web based GUI that runs on just about anything, ability to hard wire a touch screen monitor directly to the mixer. I also prefer the GUI.
-
I went from an XR18 to a Soundcraft Ui24r. It's a significant upgrade, IMO. More channels, more routing options, better sounding, much easier recording, more auxes, usable built in wife (though still fairly weak)
Sean, the feature you mention that I am most interested in knowing more about is 'usable built in wife (though still fairly weak)...
I have a wife of 33 years and 'weak' isn't the word I would use. Just having a little fun in the morning.
Bill
-
Sean, the feature you mention that I am most interested in knowing more about is 'usable built in wife (though still fairly weak)...
I have a wife of 33 years and 'weak' isn't the word I would use. Just having a little fun in the morning.
Bill
LOL - I actually typed that too and the "i" and "e" keys are nowhere near each other. Hmmmmm, maybe I should check the mixing app for a psychoanalysis feature.
-
I went from an XR18 to a Soundcraft Ui24r. It's a significant upgrade, IMO. More channels, more routing options, better sounding, much easier recording, more auxes, usable built in wife (though still fairly weak), web based GUI that runs on just about anything, ability to hard wire a touch screen monitor directly to the mixer. I also prefer the GUI.
This. I'm just a dumb drummer and switched from a MixWiz to the Ui24R and love it. I was a bit nervous making the change to digital, but this mixer is easy to learn and sounds really good. Obviously never used an X18, but a sound guy we use occasionally likes to bring his for our shows. I'm convinced my Soundcraft sounds better and from what I can tell looks easier to use.
-
All mixers with builtin wifi uses a very simplistic wifi module and should only be used as for non-critical stuff.
The reason is that licensing the radio module in the whole world takes time and cost a lot of money so pre-built modules are used that already have all necessary and proper licensing already.
For live combat a proper wifi router is required to make use of diversity and mimo to enhance the wifi operation.
-
For live combat a proper wifi router is required to make use of diversity and mimo to enhance the wifi operation.
Amen
Bill
-
I frequently get lines out of guest engineer’s B’brand boxes and they all seem to work. That said, the UI-24 kills them for sound quality. The web server design is next level. Running any remote control app or browser on any mixer without an external router is just daft...
In my UI-24 rig, it is hard wired to a NetGear N300 wireless, 4 port router, when mixing from stage, generally I just use an iPad. WhenI’m mixing in an FOH position, I als wore a Dell All In One Win10 PC to the router. 21.5 “ touch screen. In settings, local I turned on browser sync. Then I open 2 additional browsers. Main browser is the mixer top layer, second is set to selected channel EQ/Gate/Comp. third window is usually set to aux contributions. The browsers all follow the selected channel. It’s pretty slick.
-
If your XR18 is broken, and isn't under warranty, and you're after a replacement...
With your lineup, it sounds like you're not needing more I/O than the XR18 provides. So another XR18 is probably the cheapest replacement - plus you wouldn't need to relearn anything.
All of the other contenders mentioned are valid options, and their relative appeal will depend on which of their features have appeal to you. But, in the end, the XR18 is a great form factor and, if you're within its constraints, is a bargain. Caveats, of course, about the faults you've seen, but generally XRs are as reliable as the rest of the pack.
-
I frequently get lines out of guest engineer’s B’brand boxes and they all seem to work. That said, the UI-24 makes them for sound quality. The web server design is next level. Running any remote control app or browser on any mixer without an external router is just daft...
In my UI-24 rig, it is hard wired to a NetGear N300 wireless, 4 port router, when mixing from stage, generally I just use an iPad. WhenI’m mixing in an FOH position, I als wore a Dell All In One Win10 PC to the router. 21.5 “ touch screen. In settings, local I turned on browser sync. Then I open 2 additional browsers. Main browser is the mixer top layer, second is set to selected channel EQ/Gate/Comp. third window is usually set to aux contributions. The browsers all follow the selected channel. It’s pretty slick.
Mal, can you tell me the best way to get an external router hooked up to my Ui24R? I have one, but have yet tried to hook it up. I've been using the internal wifi and it's worked fine for our small shows, but I would like to get my external router up and running to ensure better performance.
-
Mal, can you tell me the best way to get an external router hooked up to my Ui24R? I have one, but have yet tried to hook it up. I've been using the internal wifi and it's worked fine for our small shows, but I would like to get my external router up and running to ensure better performance.
So this is about networking.... the UI 24 has a default ip address of 10.10.2.2. I used the router admin page to set it’s ip to 10.10.2.1 and reserved 4 through 10 for dhcp to handle IPads and etc connecting. I reserved 10.10.2.2 as a static address. I also reserved an address for my PC. At 10.10.2.3.
Each router has it’s own management page so exactly how to handle your’s is not something I would likely know.
The pc and Ui 24 are hard wired to the router. iPads connect wirelessly (duh!)
If you are on Facebook, I highly recommend joining the UI-24r group. One of the members wrote and uploaded a nice guide on this topic. It is also where the Product Manager, Danny Olesh takes requests. He also answers a lot of questions though the group does a lot of self support. It is probably the best reason I have to be on Facebook other than family stuff at this point.
-
The n300 would definitely not be the first wifi router that I’d think of.
It is single-band 2.4ghz with no mu-mimo, beam forming or 802.11ac.
In my UI-24 rig, it is hard wired to a NetGear N300 wireless, 4 port router
-
I went from an XR18 to a Soundcraft Ui24r. It's a significant upgrade, IMO. More channels, more routing options, better sounding, much easier recording, more auxes, usable built in wife (though still fairly weak), web based GUI that runs on just about anything, ability to hard wire a touch screen monitor directly to the mixer. I also prefer the GUI.
LMAO!
My X32 Rack did not come with a built in wife of any kind Sean. I had to add that option myself ;)
On a more serious note, I agree. I think the Ui24 is better for the money than the X32 Rack depending on your usage; however, more people are likely to know the X32/XR infrastructure/architecture (if that is something anyone cares about).
The X32 Rack and XR18 still have a few neat features not found on the Ui24 as well, but if these features aren't something you can't live without, then the Ui24 has much to recommend it.
Robert,
I am actually going through wifi He!! right now at work. Multi-country wifi certification is quite a racket. What a PITA!
-
LMAO!
My X32 Rack did not come with a built in wife of any kind Sean. I had to add that option myself ;)
On a more serious note, I agree. I think the Ui24 is better for the money than the X32 Rack depending on your usage; however, more people are likely to know the X32/XR infrastructure/architecture (if that is something anyone cares about).
The X32 Rack and XR18 still have a few neat features not found on the Ui24 as well, but if these features aren't something you can't live without, then the Ui24 has much to recommend it.
Robert,
I am actually going through wifi He!! right now at work. Multi-country wifi certification is quite a racket. What a PITA!
what features does the xr18 have the Soundcraft does not?
-
The n300 would definitely not be the first wifi router that I’d think of.
It is single-band 2.4ghz with no mu-mimo, beam forming or 802.11ac.
Been in my rig for like eons... are they even sold anymore ? Just keeps plugging along. I’ll upgrade when I have to ... there’s more movers to buy...
-
Soundcraft UI24
+1 for the Ui24
When I wanted to try the rack mixer format, started out with the Ui16 which worked well, loved the app, but suffered from connectivity issues (and bugs given it was an early run of the units). I've since moved to a Ui24 and love it. Still don't rely on the Wifi (use hardwired Airport Extreme) but the Ui24 is a major improvement on the Ui16. Haven't tried anything Behringer so can't compare. YMMV
-
So this is about networking.... the UI 24 has a default ip address of 10.10.2.2. I used the router admin page to set it’s ip to 10.10.2.1 and reserved 4 through 10 for dhcp to handle IPads and etc connecting. I reserved 10.10.2.2 as a static address. I also reserved an address for my PC. At 10.10.2.3.
Each router has it’s own management page so exactly how to handle your’s is not something I would likely know.
The pc and Ui 24 are hard wired to the router. iPads connect wirelessly (duh!)
If you are on Facebook, I highly recommend joining the UI-24r group. One of the members wrote and uploaded a nice guide on this topic. It is also where the Product Manager, Danny Olesh takes requests. He also answers a lot of questions though the group does a lot of self support. It is probably the best reason I have to be on Facebook other than family stuff at this point.
Thanks Mal. Some of that sounded like Greek, but I get the gist. Not on Facebook, but thanks for the suggestion. Oh, and sorry to hijack thread.
-
what features does the xr18 have the Soundcraft does not?
Automatic lo-fi... baked in ;-)
I hear that there are filters on aux outs that some folks leverage with aux fed subs. Not an issue for me as I either run powered subs and tops with the x-over included (K series). Or racks and stacks with BSS speaker processing as a part of the rack. Thanks
-
The n300 would definitely not be the first wifi router that I’d think of.
It is single-band 2.4ghz with no mu-mimo, beam forming or 802.11ac.
Ok, now that I’ve been shamed (only kidding ...). There are refurbed TP Link Archer C7’s on Amazon for like $60. Maybe it’s time to upgrade after all...
-
what features does the xr18 have the Soundcraft does not?
The X32 has quite a bit more than the XR18; however, both have a multi-band compressor, side chain triggering of both compressors and gates, frequency dependent triggers of compressors and gates, on-screen information about where the input level is along the trigger curve for both compressors and gates, dozens of different FX not in the Ui, much more sophisticated control of each efx, the ability to use the 16 channel personal monitoring system P16m through ultranet, and quite a bit more I believe.
Still, there is nothing at all wrong with the Ui24. It sounds better (to many people's ears), and arguably, the efx it has are good without tons of tweaking.
I also think it isn't fair to compare the Ui24 to the XR18 considering the price difference. It is a more apt comparison to pit the Ui24 against the X32 Rack (which are more similar in price).
The X32 Rack has many more features over the both the Ui24 and the XR18, not the least of which is a front panel physical UI. It can use a stage box, it has much more complex routing capabilities, and it can actually be used as a stage box (and a redundant X32 brain) for another X32 mixer. The X32 Rack is a pretty capable mixer with many features of much more expensive mixers.... and it is fairly inexpensive as well.
Still, you need to consider your own personal usage model to decide which mixer is better for what you do.
FWIW, I think that anyone decent can make a great sounding mix with an XR18 or X32. I doubt many would hear the difference between theses mixers and the Ui24 in a live environment (some here might as we are generally a pretty particular lot ;) ).
-
The X32 has quite a bit more than the XR18; however, both have a multi-band compressor, side chain triggering of both compressors and gates, frequency dependent triggers of compressors and gates, on-screen information about where the input level is along the trigger curve for both compressors and gates, dozens of different FX not in the Ui, much more sophisticated control of each efx, the ability to use the 16 channel personal monitoring system P16m through ultranet, and quite a bit more I believe.
Still, there is nothing at all wrong with the Ui24. It sounds better (to many people's ears), and arguably, the efx it has are good without tons of tweaking.
I also think it isn't fair to compare the Ui24 to the XR18 considering the price difference. It is a more apt comparison to pit the Ui24 against the X32 Rack (which are more similar in price).
The X32 Rack has many more features over the both the Ui24 and the XR18, not the least of which is a front panel physical UI. It can use a stage box, it has much more complex routing capabilities, and it can actually be used as a stage box (and a redundant X32 brain) for another X32 mixer. The X32 Rack is a pretty capable mixer with many features of much more expensive mixers.... and it is fairly inexpensive as well.
Still, you need to consider your own personal usage model to decide which mixer is better for what you do.
FWIW, I think that anyone decent can make a great sounding mix with an XR18 or X32. I doubt many would hear the difference between theses mixers and the Ui24 in a live environment (some here might as we are generally a pretty particular lot ;) ).
Hopefully my XR18 is fine, haven't had time to check it.
If it is dead I think the x32 rack would be a cool replacement. It probably has more than we need but if I can afford it....
I've consider the x32 compact, as the band would probably like physical faders back, although they like the stage box. Then again we have a snake.
-
I've consider the x32 compact, as the band would probably like physical faders back, although they like the stage box. Then again we have a snake.
THe x32 is a huge upgrade over the XR18. The iPad app is vastly superior in my opinion as well. No moving targets to hit when using an iPad is a huge plus.
If you do want some physical control back, you can add the XTouch control surface into the mix. It works quite well even over WIFI. A nice thing about the X32 is that you do also have physical control on the front of the box. While it would be a nightmare to mix an entire show off of just that, it's better than the no possible option that the XR18 is giving you.
I'm an all X32 shop right now. I had a couple of XR units because I wanted something just a little more compact. While they were a little smaller, the benefits of the X32 far outweigh the added size. I've got one in each amp rack, and one in my wireless rack. Easy to digitally connect everything together when I need to using a single cable. Learning to be fluent in creative routing was the biggest obstacle. But now I can pretty much do that in my sleep.
-
I can't imagine them getting comfortable with the xtouch either.
That's why my mind is wandering to an X32. While I could still run from a device, someone else could just nudge a fader up if need be. But of course it's a steep learning curve for them since they haven't bothered learning the XR18.
In some ways, they would prefer a simple analog mixer, but we wouldn't get the same features and flexibility.
-
Mal, can you tell me the best way to get an external router hooked up to my Ui24R? I have one, but have yet tried to hook it up. I've been using the internal wifi and it's worked fine for our small shows, but I would like to get my external router up and running to ensure better performance.
Greg, I downloaded a copy of the PDF from the Facebook group. I don’t seem to be able to upload it here through.pm me and I’ll get you a copy.
-
Mal, can you tell me the best way to get an external router hooked up to my Ui24R? I have one, but have yet tried to hook it up. I've been using the internal wifi and it's worked fine for our small shows, but I would like to get my external router up and running to ensure better performance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5zqiUwp7lY
-
what features does the xr18 have the Soundcraft does not?
The XR18 has more DSP module types to choose from (limiters, compressors, EQs, delays, reverbs, and others). If I'm remembering correctly you're limited to using 4 total across the whole mixer though. For instance, if you want de-essing on your vocal channels, that's 1 (the Soundcraft has de-essing built into each channel strip so it doesn't take a processor slot).
Other than that, the only thing I can think of is the XR18 has midi capability. I never used it when I owned an XR18 so I'm not sure what you can control.
-
When it comes to a de-esser there is actually a nice trick that the x32/x-air mixers have up their sleeve.
Both the gate/ducker/expander and compressor have sidechain. You can use the sidechain to limit the ‘esses’ and this works like a charm on any channel/bus.
Btw, the x-air line of mixers uses the same analog components and share the channelstrip and fx processing as the x32.
https://youtu.be/gylxuO6dKOw
Seems to sound good enough for those guys ;-)
For instance, if you want de-essing on your vocal channels, that's 1 (the Soundcraft has de-essing built into each channel strip so it doesn't take a processor slot).
-
I did a shootout recently, trying to choose a console for myself.
I went for the UI24. It sounds much cleaner and more dynamic than the XR18, or in my opinion anyway. QU24 is a nice unit but you can't connect a laptop to it with ethernet, your control is iPad only. Not good enough for me.
here's my review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZH6nyOjxjU&t=4s&frags=pl%2Cwn
-
Greg, I downloaded a copy of the PDF from the Facebook group. I don’t seem to be able to upload it here through.pm me and I’ll get you a copy.
Thanks....I got my router connected. I appreciate your help.
-
Sweet! Enjoy that board. I love the ui-24. Haven’t had my Si 1 out in ages...
-
I did a shootout recently, trying to choose a console for myself.
I went for the UI24. It sounds much cleaner and more dynamic than the XR18, or in my opinion anyway. QU24 is a nice unit but you can't connect a laptop to it with ethernet, your control is iPad only. Not good enough for me.
here's my review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZH6nyOjxjU&t=4s&frags=pl%2Cwn
I have yet to hear from anyone that has used the Ui24 and other mixers in its class that has not concluded that the Ui24 is a nicer sounding mixer. If I were starting over with digital today, I would likely have the Ui24. Unfortunately, I have grown competent on my X32 Rack and can't give up the time and effort it took to get things honed in so well ;)