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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Mike Holtzinger on October 04, 2018, 07:20:10 AM
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I'm looking at powered boxes in the sub $400 range, and they all appear to be about the same. Alto, Eon, ZLX, Mackie Thump, Behringer etc. Is there a box IN THIS PRICE RANGE that stands out?
I'm interested in 12" as they'll be used for a loud Bar band as monitors. So I'd like to hear from those of you who have actually compared some of them.
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The words loud bar band is going to make a cheap monitor a tough buy. The issue is that cheap speakers typically aren't that loud and furthermore are not as stable against feedback as higher priced units.
I was pretty impressed by the EV ZLX, and while it sounds pretty good and is fairly stable, it is not very loud. The limiter shuts it down right about the time it is getting to the apparently there stage. If you ask for more it just limits and gets closer to feedback never really getting louder. Mackie needs to be dropped from your list as well as ANY Behringer option. There is a coaxial Alto option that has gotten some love, but again isn't very loud. QSC just came out with a new CP line which is basically a slightly dumbed down K series box, but it doesn't get too loud.
I would put my money on the EV ZLX and QSC CP series as being the best you can get for the price, but I don't think they will be loud enough for what I would consider a loud bar band. You can get them pretty readily at Guitar Center. You can try them out and return them if they don't perform.
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I own a EV ZLX15P and pretty much hate it so you’re gonna get a variety of opinions. For $400 per you could get something better used.
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I'm looking at powered boxes in the sub $400 range, and they all appear to be about the same. Alto, Eon, ZLX, Mackie Thump, Behringer etc. Is there a box IN THIS PRICE RANGE that stands out?
I'm interested in 12" as they'll be used for a loud Bar band as monitors. So I'd like to hear from those of you who have actually compared some of them.
Define loud. Is the stage loud?, house loud?, both loud? Again, define loud.
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Define loud. Is the stage loud?, house loud?, both loud? Again, define loud.
Stage is probably louder than the house. We're currently using a pair of old JBL MR805 15" wedges (300w?) up front and on each side we have some Behringer B212 actives on tripods. The drummer has ears. We'll keep the ears and Behringers, they're actually fine for side fills. I'm looking for 3 wedges for the 3 of us up front. The middle wedge will also serve as my guitar (direct) monitor.
FOH is SR812p's over SR828p's. It can get loud.
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Sounds to me like stage volume with existing amps is your real problem, not needing louder monitors.
If you're already prepared to drop $4-500 a monitor, would it not be more worth your while to get IEMs for all band members instead?
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If you were in my area you could get used boxes off Craigslist in this range. I would suggest some patient craigslist trolling.
Stage is probably louder than the house. We're currently using a pair of old JBL MR805 15" wedges (300w?) up front and on each side we have some Behringer B212 actives on tripods. The drummer has ears. We'll keep the ears and Behringers, they're actually fine for side fills. I'm looking for 3 wedges for the 3 of us up front. The middle wedge will also serve as my guitar (direct) monitor.
FOH is SR812p's over SR828p's. It can get loud.
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Sounds to me like stage volume with existing amps is your real problem, not needing louder monitors.
+1 to this. You're trying to solve the wrong problem. If the stage is already louder than the house getting louder monitors is just going to make everything worse for the audience.
Tell the band it's time to grow up, act more professional and turn down.
Good luck with that BTW :)
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Drum shield and plexi shields for any offending amp if you can't get them to turn down. Or get them to "shoot their amps across the stage as opposed to behind them pointing out front. They'll make each other turn down or play quieter then.
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Drum shield and plexi shields for any offending amp if you can't get them to turn down. Or get them to "shoot their amps across the stage as opposed to behind them pointing out front. They'll make each other turn down or play quieter then.
+1 to this. You're trying to solve the wrong problem. If the stage is already louder than the house getting louder monitors is just going to make everything worse for the audience.
Tell the band it's time to grow up, act more professional and turn down.
Good luck with that BTW :)
This ain't my first rodeo and I understand completely. That's why I'm leaving the Marshall at home and playing direct with an Amplifire pedal. But I still want to upgrade the old JBLs to powered.
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This ain't my first rodeo and I understand completely. That's why I'm leaving the Marshall at home and playing direct with an Amplifire pedal. But I still want to upgrade the old JBLs to powered.
Alto and EVs get ok reviews.
New QSC CP series may be a good fit.
I agree with one of the earlier posts though, you should be combing Craigs List. You could easily get a JBL PRX or QSC HPR powered box for that price on the used market.
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Side fills…interesting. I don't think I've seen a band with them for quite a while. I've always thought that the distance away from your ears meant you're battling the inverse square law and they wash out the stage mics. Anyhow, sounds like you know the issues. It's often hard to turn a band's bad habits around.
I've found K10 & K12 used for $500. I bought a pair of Yamaha DBR12 that have seen many kinds of gigs. They work quite well. The only issue I've had with them is that the cabinet construction is pretty thin, so there is a fair amount more resonance coming off the box, vs more substantial cabinets, liken K series.
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I use the Alto Black/Denon Delta 12s for monitors. They are a very well made and nice looking box, but they don't get super loud. They have a 1.75" voice coil for the horn and I think most powered speakers with that size horn will perform similarly. Note that a coaxial driver with the same size horn voice coil is likely better (RCF NX 12SMA for example), but well out of your price range.
Having said that, I have two Radian RMW-1122 monitors for sale that I will part with for a very fair price. Pair them with an inexpensive DSP amp like the NX3000D and you will have two monitors on stage that the performers will be able to hear!
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Side fills…interesting. I don't think I've seen a band with them for quite a while. I've always thought that the distance away from your ears meant you're battling the inverse square law and they wash out the stage mics. Anyhow, sounds like you know the issues. It's often hard to turn a band's bad habits around.
I've found K10 & K12 used for $500. I bought a pair of Yamaha DBR12 that have seen many kinds of gigs. They work quite well. The only issue I've had with them is that the cabinet construction is pretty thin, so there is a fair amount more resonance coming off the box, vs more substantial cabinets, liken K series.
I always use cross state monitors.
1. Sound enters your ear through the side of your head.
2. I really don’t like the multiple hot spots with floor wedges alone. I get so many compliments at my one venue. The room sounds like poop but the relatively dead stage..with EAW 222’s on the stacks at head height...with SM500 wedges for center and drums..fill the whole stage area with more even coverage...especially nice with multiple guitar bands using samples. You can walk around the stage and still hear everything.
Much more ‘fun’ experience than 3-5 floor up hot spots.
After these experiences, I have big faith in using overbuilt stuff.
This place gets blowing loud and no one ever complains about monitors..except to say they are too loud.
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The thing with small sidefills is that you can keep the vocals alone in front and run a taste of instruments from the other side of the stage into the sidefill. Helps the band hear each other without everyone turning up. I'm a big believer in aural location. By having vocals coming out of one place and instruments out of another, neither has to be as loud and it's easier for the musicians to listen to whatever cue they want.
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The feedback potential of side fills should be relatively the same as a monitor on the floor in terms of acoustic SPL before feedback. The distance shouldn't be too big of an issue. You should be able to get near the same SPL potential at the mic of choice, so not really much of a difference.
I would think that a side fill would also be easier to hear and tune for clarity due to lack of floor coupling ( the woofiness that most monitors exhibit ) and the higher area of coverage. If you can't hear a speaker dedicated to a task on a stage, adding more is only going to solve one problem and create another. Basically, less is more...... By less, I mean less stage volume.
My big issue with utilizing both side fills and conventional monitoring is that you have multiple arrival times coming from every conceivable location on the stage. Big stages are not as bad with it because of the distance and the Cross Stage monitoring technique utilized for side fills. Small stages just turns it into a huge wall of noise. You're close enough to everything that you can hear everything coming from their respective locations, plus now you have the vocals and god knows what else coming out of 7-9 other speakers!!!!! Will it be heard? Sure, but will it sound good?
If you ask me, monitors are not meant to sound good, they are meant to be heard. A monitor that is LOUD, probably doesn't truly sound good; at least for FOH mixing purposes. A monitor that is heard well and easily will have plenty of midrange bark and hi-end bite, and hopefully, have very little low end to it. This makes it cut like a hot knife through butter and it WILL be heard in the first few rows of the dance area if utilized to its max potential.
Loud band = loud monitors = loud everything...... If the band is louder than you can get the monitor to be, the ONLY solution should be to turn the band down ( ala less stage level ). This is the equivalent of working with the tools you got. While more may seem like an easy solution, it isn't always the case. A good mechanic doesn't blame his tools....... Right? The tools you have are not great but are technically sufficient if you change the way you work with them. A better tool ( in our case ) can typically ensure better outcomes, but that is not guaranteed. A speaker that gets 136db peak SPL may not do any better than another only rated for 128db peak for monitoring purposes. At some point, you have to accept that the appropriate change required is not always a replacement of the tool, but a change in the protocol.
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The feedback potential of side fills should be relatively the same as a monitor on the floor in terms of acoustic SPL before feedback. The distance shouldn't be too big of an issue. You should be able to get near the same SPL potential at the mic of choice, so not really much of a difference.
{big ol' snip}
Loud band = loud monitors = loud everything...... If the band is louder than you can get the monitor to be, the ONLY solution should be to turn the band down ( ala less stage level ). This is the equivalent of working with the tools you got. While more may seem like an easy solution, it isn't always the case. A good mechanic doesn't blame his tools....... Right? The tools you have are not great but are technically sufficient if you change the way you work with them. A better tool ( in our case ) can typically ensure better outcomes, but that is not guaranteed. A speaker that gets 136db peak SPL may not do any better than another only rated for 128db peak for monitoring purposes. At some point, you have to accept that the appropriate change required is not always a replacement of the tool, but a change in the protocol.
With quiet stages comes great responsibility - you need a system that genuinely covers the desired audience areas; and having a good and proper mix to be delivered to that system.
/channeling Yoda
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Luke, What I was referring to is not having everything coming out of 7-9 places on stage. From a small bar to a town music in the park show, most folks can hear themselves from their own amplification just fine. It's the stuff across the way they have trouble with. That's what I use sidefills for. No vocals, so no GBF issues. Direct keys, DI'd acoustic guitars, or mic'd guitar amps don't have GBF issues if only played though something on the other side of the stage. The things I do, don't involve 8 monitor mixes. 4 or 5 at most. Vocals in front, maybe split between a couple mixes. Right and left sidefill, and drums. By not putting everything through every monitor it keeps the stage volume down. Folks aren't turning up their rigs to hear themselves. If someone has a guitar amp that needs to be cranked to get the desired sound, then out comes the plexi shield. Once they've tried this, many guitarists like it as a shield that's not too high will funnel a fairly natural sound up to the musician. If you smother the amp in plexiglass you may get some resistance, but a small shield usually works. The one I have is around 18" high. So if you put it in front of a 4-12, about half the top speakers peek over it. Enough to contain the sound but still let the front row hear the amp.
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If you need loud and cheap you probably can't find it in a powered box.
My vote is to go with the tried and true Yamaha club wedges and a smal amp rack. Amps are cheap and light nowadays. Yammy Clubs are the BFH of the cheap monitor world.
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If you need loud and cheap you probably can't find it in a powered box.
My vote is to go with the tried and true Yamaha club wedges and a smal amp rack. Amps are cheap and light nowadays. Yammy Clubs are the BFH of the cheap monitor world.
I have said this a couple of times but the club V with the Yamaha amp and presets is a lot better than the series reputation.
If you can find ev fm1202 used they also work well, if big and heavy.
Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
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I've been impressed with the Turbosound iX series, considering the price point.
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The best I’ve used at this price point is the FBT X-Lite 12a. I had the EV ZLX12p, Yamaha DBR12 and Alto TS212a all here to compare and the FBT was noticeably louder and clearer than all of these. The RCF 312 (and 712 depending on price in your area) would definitely be worth auditioning as well!
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This sounds like a definite volume competition
Loud monitors are like drugs, the more you want from them, the more you need from them next time.
Get the band in line as the earlier poster said and deal with immature stage volume. Before you all go deaf👂
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If you need loud and cheap you probably can't find it in a powered box.
My vote is to go with the tried and true Yamaha club wedges and a smal amp rack. Amps are cheap and light nowadays. Yammy Clubs are the BFH of the cheap monitor world.
Another vote for Yamaha Club series. We installed some Yamaha CM10Vs powered by Behringer NU3000DSP as part of a super-low budget high school theatre system. Built DSP presets using the Yamaha provided numbers and have had zero issues. Gets very loud for the price and surprisingly stable. The boxes look more expensive than they are, too.
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I'm looking at powered boxes in the sub $400 range, and they all appear to be about the same. Alto, Eon, ZLX, Mackie Thump, Behringer etc. Is there a box IN THIS PRICE RANGE that stands out?
I'm interested in 12" as they'll be used for a loud Bar band as monitors. So I'd like to hear from those of you who have actually compared some of them.
Another vote for the EV ZLX12p but you might find some dsr112 yamahas used if you really scrounge around. Those would be louder but I actually think the EV's sound better until you really press them.
--Kevin
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I've mentioned this on other threads. I've had Alto SXM12s on the same stage with ZLX12s. Even standing right in front of the EV, I could hear my singing from the Alto better. Some is because of the angle, but the EV's have a DJ voicing. Sound great by themselves, but when a band gets going all the bottom gets swamped and the highs create feedback without chopping the top. This is with the "neutral" Live preset and either the flat or wedge preset on the Alto.
If you're running things like keyboards though the wedges then the EV's are a better low cost solution if you can't afford things like DXRs. But for vocals only, the Altos are the best sub $500 I've used.
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JBL PRX712s get pretty loud, I've used then successfully as monitors in difficult venues many times. Probably can be found used at your price point.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
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I've mentioned this on other threads. I've had Alto SXM12s on the same stage with ZLX12s. Even standing right in front of the EV, I could hear my singing from the Alto better. Some is because of the angle, but the EV's have a DJ voicing. Sound great by themselves, but when a band gets going all the bottom gets swamped and the highs create feedback without chopping the top. This is with the "neutral" Live preset and either the flat or wedge preset on the Alto.
If you're running things like keyboards though the wedges then the EV's are a better low cost solution if you can't afford things like DXRs. But for vocals only, the Altos are the best sub $500 I've used.
Alto discontinued those monitors. Samson has a box that appears near identical. I picked one up and am going to pull the driver and have a look.
The quick 10 minute shop run ot sounded fine.
Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk
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Alto discontinued those monitors. Samson has a box that appears near identical. I picked one up and am going to pull the driver and have a look.
The quick 10 minute shop run ot sounded fine.
Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk
I'd be very interested in what your checkout reveals. I've also found those (now unavailable) Altos to be pretty decent for the money, and I've also noticed that the Samsons look peculiarly similar. But I can't imagine the Samsons being anything other than pretty awful, as I've never seen anything of their stuff be much more so.
Then again, remember how when we all universally hated anything Behringer? That's certainly different of late, ain't it?
Times and things do change sometimes.
PLEASE post whatever you find with that Samson monitor.
d.
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I'd be very interested in what your checkout reveals. I've also found those (now unavailable) Altos to be pretty decent for the money, and I've also noticed that the Samsons look peculiarly similar. But I can't imagine the Samsons being anything other than pretty awful, as I've never seen anything of their stuff be much more so.
Then again, remember how when we all universally hated anything Behringer? That's certainly different of late, ain't it?
Times and things do change sometimes.
PLEASE post whatever you find with that Samson monitor.
d.
Sure I am on the road this week and three shows this weekend. Won't be until next week, sorry.
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Turbosound TFX122M-AN or Milan M12. I have both in my production inventory.
I though the ZLX was fine for monitor duty, as well when I used them a couple years ago.
I'm looking at powered boxes in the sub $400 range, and they all appear to be about the same. Alto, Eon, ZLX, Mackie Thump, Behringer etc. Is there a box IN THIS PRICE RANGE that stands out?
I'm interested in 12" as they'll be used for a loud Bar band as monitors. So I'd like to hear from those of you who have actually compared some of them.
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The RCF 300 series still stands out as an affordable, good sounding box. I used them in my band for a decade. The latest MK4 version adds FirPHASE phase processing to the DSP. The 310A streets for under $400.
A step up, the 700 series has an 8", the 708-A, that streets under $400 and the 710A can be had for under $500.
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I'm looking at powered boxes in the sub $400 range, and they all appear to be about the same. Alto, Eon, ZLX, Mackie Thump, Behringer etc. Is there a box IN THIS PRICE RANGE that stands out?
I'm interested in 12" as they'll be used for a loud Bar band as monitors. So I'd like to hear from those of you who have actually compared some of them.
Check these out - Turbosound TFX122AM - on sale at sweetwater for $399:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TFX122MAN--turbosound-tfx122m-an-flashline-series-2-way-stage-monitor-12-inch
Or -if you don't mind going passive with a 10" chack out the QSC E10, and combine with a good, cheap power amp, Like the QSC GX series.
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Check these out - Turbosound TFX122AM - on sale at sweetwater for $399:
You may want to contact me or one of the many other Turbosound Dealers on PSW before you buy them at that price.
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You may want to contact me or one of the many other Turbosound Dealers on PSW before you buy them at that price.
Has anyone here used these Turbo's? I've been following this thread, looking for (2) additional floor monitors that are compact in size. I had pretty much decided on the Yamaha DXR10's (I use DSR112's as my monitors). This Turbosound box looks really nice, and that seems like an incredible price.
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Has anyone here used these Turbo's? I've been following this thread, looking for (2) additional floor monitors that are compact in size. I had pretty much decided on the Yamaha DXR10's (I use DSR112's as my monitors). This Turbosound box looks really nice, and that seems like an incredible price.
A friend bought 12 of the turbosound floor monitors and has had several of them go bad within a month or three.
I'd go with the Yammies.
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I have one of the Turbosound wedges sitting on my living room floor. It looks nice, sounds good, but not great. No ear fatigue but rolls off above 8kHz. Solid build. I don't think I'd want to use them as mains, but they'll work great for stage and it's hard to beat the price for something with a pro badge on it.
I've sold a bunch to others on this board who like them fine.
Has anyone here used these Turbo's? I've been following this thread, looking for (2) additional floor monitors that are compact in size. I had pretty much decided on the Yamaha DXR10's (I use DSR112's as my monitors). This Turbosound box looks really nice, and that seems like an incredible price.
They have the 10 year warranty. Tough to beat. You can send in just the amp modules, if that's the issue.
A friend bought 12 of the turbosound floor monitors and has had several of them go bad within a month or three.
I'd go with the Yammies.
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Yeah, I have 4 of them, 3 x 12 and 1 x 15 from Tim. No problem yet.
They are not super loud, but they focused quite well if you stand 1 meter in front of it.
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I recognize this is awakening a zombie thread...
Tim and others who have used the Turbosound - louder than an Alto SXM112a? My reference point are those, my old QSC HPR122is, and original Mackie SRM450s.
Looking to get 1 main and 1 monitor for small "GarageBand" shows where as a trio we play out of a garage to folks on the street. Would like something a bit better than the Roland keyboard amp I used last time, but not looking to get back into a full PA. Had the Altos and sold them to Scott as they didn't work for my needs.
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If you're already using SRX812P's as mains, I'd say figure out how to budget to get more of the exact same speaker. They then sound the same as your mains AND now you've got spare inventory in the event something goes wrong. If you lose a main, and have to suffer through 2 monitors on stage for a show, it's WAY better than being down an entire main for the night.
That being said, I'm hugely NOT a fan of powered speakers for monitors. Having to supply power AND signal, then having potential controls that need to be mucked with on stage is just not for me. But that's another discussion completely.
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If you're already using SRX812P's as mains, I'd say figure out how to budget to get more of the exact same speaker. They then sound the same as your mains AND now you've got spare inventory in the event something goes wrong. If you lose a main, and have to suffer through 2 monitors on stage for a show, it's WAY better than being down an entire main for the night.
That being said, I'm hugely NOT a fan of powered speakers for monitors. Having to supply power AND signal, then having potential controls that need to be mucked with on stage is just not for me. But that's another discussion completely.
This is great advice, I do have a small pile of the coax's bt they are used for corporate confidence monitor gigs and such, not for loud rock acts. The HPR's are get quite loud and hold up well but they are getting old and still fetch a good bit. Many factors.
My brain is also basking in COVID so if I don't make any sense just say so!
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I warn people from buying budget speakers with FIR filters in them for monitor use. There is certainly latency with FIR and when you have a slower, budget device that latency can add up to a little too much. The Mackie SRM with the " Gunness Focusing " in them is a prime example. They have just enough latency from the processing that it is disturbing for me and I have had a few musicians over the years also mention a weirdness to them when used as monitors.
In general, FIR filters in use for monitors is a risky move. As mentioned, if the latency is too much, it will be noticed.
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I'm looking at powered boxes in the sub $400 range, and they all appear to be about the same. Alto, Eon, ZLX, Mackie Thump, Behringer etc. Is there a box IN THIS PRICE RANGE that stands out?
I'm interested in 12" as they'll be used for a loud Bar band as monitors. So I'd like to hear from those of you who have actually compared some of them.
If you don't mind used in that price range I still see EV SXA250's out there around that price. I have 4 of the sxa250's that I can't recall ever getting a complaint about. Although the wattage on paper may seem low the output and quality of output has been great. Worth a look.
http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/STARINMANUALS/Bosch%20-%20EV/SxA250.pdf
Douglas R. Allen
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Hey Mike, don't buy cheap monitors, they're useless for loud stages. All of my FOH speakers are powered now days, but all of my mons are passive (for the same reasons Brian Jojade mentioned).
Years ago I had someone to make for me a bunch of 12" coax wedges (couldn't afford Microwedges) based around B&C 12CX32 driver using B&C suggested specs. I used them bi-amp and full range with original B&C passive crossovers. I had about 15-17 of them.
The best small 12" mon ever!
Later I've sold them all not because they didn't perform, but only because by then I had a new boss- Mr. Rider, who dictated my brand name choices.
I believe you'll find many forum members, who still put them to good use today.
Anyway, go for the best used stuff, many affordable choices, if you spend your time looking around. For example, Yorkville EM378 or similar.
Always check the VC sizes, at least 3" for LF and HF drivers, otherwise the mon will not cut through.
I still have in my inventory several coax 10" wedges, TCS TM10X made by Carvin with B&C 10NCX drivers. Use them mostly for corporate events, because they have very small footprint.
I hope it helps.
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Years ago I had someone to make for me a bunch of 12" coax wedges (couldn't afford Microwedges) based around B&C 12CX32 driver using B&C suggested specs. I used them bi-amp and full range with original B&C passive crossovers. I had about 15-17 of them.
The best small 12" mon ever!
That's what I did, only I made them myself, out of B&C 12FCX76s and their XO-4 passive crossover. I think they cost me around $450 apiece to build and coat with Duratex, but that was when birch plywood was cheap! They are loud, hi-fi, and get used in a lot of different situations from acoustic and jazz bands to loud rock.
Plans - https://soundforums.net/community/threads/free-monitor-plan-12-coaxial-smithers-wedge-by-michael-smithers.3768/
Some of my build pics - https://soundforums.net/community/threads/coaxial-wedge-collaboration.268/page-12
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Hope this isn't too off topic, but how would you compare these DIY 12" coax wedges to commercial units? Bang for buck, audio quality, volume, durability, etc? I understand the "rider" aspect, but for many of us that is a non concern. I'm tired of deploying my old 15" powered mains as monitors and thinking DIY will get me more bang per buck...is that true or am I just fooling myself?
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Hope this isn't too off topic, but how would you compare these DIY 12" coax wedges to commercial units? Bang for buck, audio quality, volume, durability, etc? I understand the "rider" aspect, but for many of us that is a non concern. I'm tired of deploying my old 15" powered mains as monitors and thinking DIY will get me more bang per buck...is that true or am I just fooling myself?
Building decent wooden boxes isn’t that difficult. For low end boxes, the economics don’t work out, but for higher end designs it is very feasible to make a very close copy for a fraction of the price if you have the tools available for construction. Resale value though may not cover cost of materials, let alone labor.
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Building decent wooden boxes isn’t that difficult. For low end boxes, the economics don’t work out, but for higher end designs it is very feasible to make a very close copy for a fraction of the price if you have the tools available for construction. Resale value though may not cover cost of materials, let alone labor.
Thanks! Sounds reasonable and along the lines of what I would expect. Would you consider the "Smithers wedge" referenced above with a B&C driver to be sufficiently "high end" to be worthwhile?
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Thanks! Sounds reasonable and along the lines of what I would expect. Would you consider the "Smithers wedge" referenced above with a B&C driver to be sufficiently "high end" to be worthwhile?
Soundwise, they are in the same league as, say, a JBL SRX 712 or a Radian Microwedge, if they are built well and sufficiently processed and powered. They won't ever get the resale value of a name-brand box and some people might have rider issues, but then again, they don't have the upfront price tag, either. Over the last 6 years, we have had a bunch of artists use them including pro touring musicians, and no real complaints.
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Hope this isn't too off topic, but how would you compare these DIY 12" coax wedges to commercial units? Bang for buck, audio quality, volume, durability, etc? I understand the "rider" aspect, but for many of us that is a non concern. I'm tired of deploying my old 15" powered mains as monitors and thinking DIY will get me more bang per buck...is that true or am I just fooling myself?
I replaced the multi-purpose, powered 12" speakers that I used almost exclusively for monitors with Turbosound TFM122M & 152M Flashline monitors a couple of years ago. These are the non-powered "big brothers" to the cheaper TFX line. They are co-axial monitors with a 3" VC, 1.4" exit high frequency device and both drivers are Neo so the wedges are super light. MAP for the 12" version is $970, but I'm sure that the Music Tribe dealers on here can get you a much better price than that. Unless you're planning on building a lot of boxes, I would think that the cost of the Turbo wedges is very competitive to building your own. When you add in the warranty and better resale value it makes them worth a good look, IMHO.
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I replaced the multi-purpose, powered 12" speakers that I used almost exclusively for monitors with Turbosound TFM122M & 152M Flashline monitors a couple of years ago. These are the non-powered "big brothers" to the cheaper TFX line. They are co-axial monitors with a 3" VC, 1.4" exit high frequency device and both drivers are Neo so the wedges are super light. MAP for the 12" version is $970, but I'm sure that the Music Tribe dealers on here can get you a much better price than that. Unless you're planning on building a lot of boxes, I would think that the cost of the Turbo wedges is very competitive to building your own. When you add in the warranty and better resale value it makes them worth a good look, IMHO.
Thanks John. Yeah, I was looking at the TFM122M's and thinking they were probably pretty close to the DIY boxes sound wise. For the DIY boxes, the B&C driver alone was over $400. Add a crossover, connectors, handles, baltic birch ply, a grill, plus paint and I figure the price difference is getting pretty small. Someone stated the DIY boxes cost them about $600 or so each, before plywood got expensive. I have a nice wood shop and making boxes is a snap, but they prob aren't going to be as slick or light as some of the molded boxes, and given I only need 4, not sure the cost savings will be that significant (esp vs time spent).
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Thanks John. Yeah, I was looking at the TFM122M's and thinking they were probably pretty close to the DIY boxes sound wise. For the DIY boxes, the B&C driver alone was over $400. Add a crossover, connectors, handles, baltic birch ply, a grill, plus paint and I figure the price difference is getting pretty small. Someone stated the DIY boxes cost them about $600 or so each, before plywood got expensive. I have a nice wood shop and making boxes is a snap, but they prob aren't going to be as slick or light as some of the molded boxes, and given I only need 4, not sure the cost savings will be that significant (esp vs time spent).
Here we go again. Last time I checked a used pair of Yorkville TX2M wedges in good condition was only $700 (all B&C drivers BTW!). Yes, they are bi-amp only, but if you want to use them full range, you can find decent passive 1.2K crossovers at $50 to $80 range. Just a thought.
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@Mark
My only two issues with the TFM line are both pretty minor. First of all, the only handle is on the bottom. It's in a great spot for carrying the wedge around, but useless for moving the wedge around on stage. The end pieces (plastic) are inset so there's a small lip you can use, but the lip isn't very big, especially if you're wearing gloves. The second issue is that the grill could stand to be one gauge heavier. It just feels like a wanna-be rock star could dent it pretty easily if they put their boot on the wedge and lean into it too much. I also wish that they were 60 x 60 instead of 60 x 40, but their horn pattern hasn't proven to be an issue in use.
FWIW I got bags for mine from Zeus Covers, but given the location of the handle on these wedges, building road cases that hold the wedges standing up would be the ideal solution. Maybe that's the place to invest your shop time?
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Thanks John! The TFM's look pretty nice, but yep, surprising how many mfg's can't figure out proper handle placement. My old EV's have great handle placement, but weigh a ton!
BTW - I've built ATA road cases before (even have a pneumatic rivet gun). But I've decided, for what I do, soft cases and covers are preferable. Road cases add a significant amount of weight. Most of my gigs are local and I'm usually the one carrying the boxes. But if you have hired crew or have to ship gear around, road cases all the way baby!
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Thanks John! The TFM's look pretty nice, but yep, surprising how many mfg's can't figure out proper handle placement. My old EV's have great handle placement, but weigh a ton!
BTW - I've built ATA road cases before (even have a pneumatic rivet gun). But I've decided, for what I do, soft cases and covers are preferable. Road cases add a significant amount of weight. Most of my gigs are local and I'm usually the one carrying the boxes. But if you have hired crew or have to ship gear around, road cases all the way baby!
All of our trucks have a minimum interior box width of 92". We standardized on things 45/22.5/24/30 inches for the vast majority of our cases. For things that don't need cases but do need wheels, we build dolly boards using those dimensions and use ratchet straps to hold gear to them. If you need to hand carry, no problem. Never a big case to hide or back-load into the truck or trailer.
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Here we go again. Last time I checked a used pair of Yorkville TX2M wedges in good condition was only $700 (all B&C drivers BTW!). Yes, they are bi-amp only, but if you want to use them full range, you can find decent passive 1.2K crossovers at $50 to $80 range. Just a thought.
Yorkville TX lives again on the LAB! That line was great value, real transducers, good construction, etc.