Tom Young wrote on Fri, 06 August 2010 14:36 |
The level of the sermon is always lower than the music. Your best bet is to feed the recorder from an aux bus (postfader, post-EQ) on the mixer so that you can increases the pastor's mic independently of the mix you have for the speaker system. It also helps to compress the sermon recording slightly. |
Dick Rees wrote on Fri, 06 August 2010 17:11 |
Shad.... Go out and get yourself an EbTech "Line Level Shifter" and place it between the outputs of your board and the CD burner. You are getting a -10 "consumer level" output and the burner is looking for a +4 "pro level" input signal. I have this same issue with my Tascam burner and boosting the signal with the level shifter allow me to actually have the use of the input control on the burner. As a bonus feature you will also tranformer isolate the two units which can be a good safeguard against any hum, buzz or other noise on the recording. DR |
Dick Rees wrote on Fri, 06 August 2010 17:11 |
Shad.... Go out and get yourself an EbTech "Line Level Shifter" and place it between the outputs of your board and the CD burner. You are getting a -10 "consumer level" output and the burner is looking for a +4 "pro level" input signal. I have this same issue with my Tascam burner and boosting the signal with the level shifter allow me to actually have the use of the input control on the burner. As a bonus feature you will also tranformer isolate the two units which can be a good safeguard against any hum, buzz or other noise on the recording. DR |
Shad Hall wrote on Fri, 06 August 2010 20:36 | ||
hi dick, thanks for the helpful reply. i'll try to get it purchased this week. just to make sure i got this right, is this how you would suggest hooking up the line level shifter? mixer "tape out" {rca's} > line lvl shifter -10 dBV {1/4 ts} > line lvl shifter +4dBu {1/4 ts} > tascam "line input" {rca} thanks |
Dick Rees wrote on Sat, 07 August 2010 01:11 |
Shad.... Go out and get yourself an EbTech "Line Level Shifter" and place it between the outputs of your board and the CD burner. You are getting a -10 "consumer level" output and the burner is looking for a +4 "pro level" input signal. |
Arnold B. Krueger wrote on Mon, 09 August 2010 06:34 |
Another solution is to simply manually advance the gain on the recorder just before the sermon and announcements start, and back it down before the music starts. You can put 2 marks on the front panel, one for music and one for spoken word. |
Dick Rees wrote on Mon, 09 August 2010 12:48 | ||
I quote the above in reference to the OP stating: "input volume on tascam is maxed out." This tells me that there is no way to "manually advance the gain on the recorder" as you recommend. By simply showing the recorder a stronger signal you can now use the tecnique you recommend. In several church installs I've done I have used a Rane "Swiss Army" line distro to address the issue of needing different levels of the same feed for recording, crying room, fellowship hall, etc. This is another (more expensive) fix. Whatever works. I just was stating the way that I do it when the house is being fed a signal at +4 and the tape outs are at -10. The little level shifter box simply puts them both at the same level. Best wishes. DR |
Arnold B. Krueger wrote on Mon, 09 August 2010 17:16 | ||
If the output of a console is unable to properly drive a CD recorder set to max gain, then it is very likely that the gain structure of the system through the console is way too low. |
Dick Rees wrote on Tue, 10 August 2010 00:26 | ||||
There will always be a 14v difference between the mains out and the tape outs no matter what the system gain structure. I find it simplest to use the step-up transformer to rectify the problem if using the 2-track outs is the connection du jour. |
Jonathan Johnson wrote on Mon, 09 August 2010 20:02 |
I'm surprised no one has asked these questions yet:
The block diagram (page 33 of the manual) is your friend. Studying it reveals that the TAPE OUT is ahead of the MAIN MASTER control and main EQ. So if you are running your channel volume knobs significantly lower than "U" (12:00), that could explain the low signal level in the recording. The MAIN MASTER knob has no effect on the TAPE OUT. If you are not using the MONITOR section of the 808S, you could connect the CD recorder to the MONITOR LINE OUT. Of course, that would limit it to a mono recording, but you likely would be able to boost the signal with the MONITOR LEVEL control and not have to get an external transformer/amplifier before the recorder. The MONITOR section, if not used with the built-in amp, is really just another name for pre-fader, pre-EQ AUX SEND 1. If you are not using outboard processing (signal processor connected to L+R MIXER OUT and L+R POWER AMP IN), you may be able to connect the recorder to the L+R MIXER OUT connectors to get a hotter signal. This will preserve the stereo image. If you are not using the on-board effects, you can also use the EFX channel controls and the EFX SEND jack as a virtual post-fader, post-EQ AUX SEND. Note that making this connection will disable the on-board effects. It's also helpful to note that the 808S does not provide true balanced (floating) outputs. When a TRS (balanced) line is connected, the ring (low) will be in common with the shield. In some cases this could result in unwanted ground loop or RF noise, for example, if a long cable (balanced or unbalanced) is used to connect the mixer outs to a distant amp. This is irrelevant to the discussion, but I'll post it for completeness: only the XLR mic inputs and the channel 1-6 1/4" line inputs are balanced. The 1/4" line inputs on channels 7 and 8 are unbalanced and do not pass through the preamp. |
Jonathan Johnson wrote on Mon, 09 August 2010 20:02 |
I'm surprised no one has asked these questions yet:
|
Jordan Wolf wrote on Fri, 20 August 2010 23:43 |
You need to apply more gain to the signal before it gets to the recorder. Do you set each channel's "Input Level Set" according to Mackie's directions (see below)? That's the first step to getting things where they need to be. It's akin to PFL'ing the channel and using the meters to set the correct level, just simplified. Are you using the FX built into the mixer? If not, you might want to look into using that send for recording purposes. I think that you'll find the signal is much stronger when the various gain stages it goes through are set properly. |
Dick Rees wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 09:27 |
Shad... The physical positioning (x o'clock) is meaningless. The signal strength is what you need to ascertain. Please go back to the linked info in Jordans post. Does your console not have PFL/cue capability? DR Edit: If the output level of the board is too quiet on the CD, yet adequate for the house system, turn down your power amps so you can run the board at a hotter level. Your console output should be showing right around "0" on the meters. Adjust your house amps accordingly. You'll then have enough signal going out of the board to drive the recorder and yet not overpower the congregation with the house sound. Just guessing that this may be your situation. |
Shad Hall wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 15:48 | ||
so i printed off his post and took it to church yesterday and referenced his post in the manual and followed the steps, but that didn't seem to help. by the way, there is no PFL as there is not even a headphone jack. ( pic of board ) also, the power amps are built into the powered mixer, so they (2x 600wt amps) are not adjustable. there is a monitor master volume knob and also one for the mains. am i still missing something? thanks again. |
Dick Rees wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 13:20 | ||||
Shad... I apologize for skipping the details you provided in your OP. All my suggestions have been based on using a "real" sound console rather than a powered head. Some powered units I've used {Peavey for example} actually have some workable feature sets. The Mackie, however, is sadly unsuited to your use. There are certainly ways to make it work by patching things together, but by the time you've done all the purchasing and patching, you'd likely be better off just selling the one you have and getting a small, full featured mixing board, some EQ'ing and a power amp. Sorry. DR |
Jonathan Johnson wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 22:06 |
Shad, Based on your previous posts, I'm understanding that you are using the "main" amp section of the Mackie 808s to power your FOH speakers, and the "monitor" section to power your stage monitors. As others here have stated, you need to make sure that signal levels are properly set. Here's the general procedure:
Hopefully, you'll be getting a hotter signal to your recorder via the TAPE OUT jacks. You'll also be feeding a hotter signal to the internal amplifier, that's why you shouldn't need to turn it up as much. That's OK. The principle behind this procedure is that you want to take your gain early. The INPUT LEVEL SET controls the sound as it passes through the mic preamp. Subsequent circuitry adds noise to the signal; this noise is a constant. If your input signal is low, it might need to be amplified 30 dB for adequate volume. If it's high, it might only need to be amplified 3 dB. The inherent noise is also amplified by the same amount; by inputting a hotter signal you will need less amplification and in turn will be amplifying the noise less, resulting in a quieter system. NOTE on step 5: On channels 7 and 8, the INPUT LEVEL SET only applies to the XLR jack. If you use the line in on either of these channels, you'll need to adjust the output of the instrument that's plugged in here until the light blinks. NOTE on step 14: If an LED on a particular channel is glowing more often than not, you may experience clipping. If this is the case, turn down the INPUT LEVEL SET until it occasionally flickers on the peaks. P.S. -- Please forgive me for any invalid assumptions I've made. This is a little bit like conducting intergalactic warfare using a text editor. |
Jonathan Johnson wrote on Mon, 23 August 2010 22:06 |
Shad, Based on your previous posts, I'm understanding that you are using the "main" amp section of the Mackie 808s to power your FOH speakers, and the "monitor" section to power your stage monitors. As others here have stated, you need to make sure that signal levels are properly set. Here's the general procedure:
Hopefully, you'll be getting a hotter signal to your recorder via the TAPE OUT jacks. You'll also be feeding a hotter signal to the internal amplifier, that's why you shouldn't need to turn it up as much. That's OK. The principle behind this procedure is that you want to take your gain early. The INPUT LEVEL SET controls the sound as it passes through the mic preamp. Subsequent circuitry adds noise to the signal; this noise is a constant. If your input signal is low, it might need to be amplified 30 dB for adequate volume. If it's high, it might only need to be amplified 3 dB. The inherent noise is also amplified by the same amount; by inputting a hotter signal you will need less amplification and in turn will be amplifying the noise less, resulting in a quieter system. NOTE on step 5: On channels 7 and 8, the INPUT LEVEL SET only applies to the XLR jack. If you use the line in on either of these channels, you'll need to adjust the output of the instrument that's plugged in here until the light blinks. NOTE on step 14: If an LED on a particular channel is glowing more often than not, you may experience clipping. If this is the case, turn down the INPUT LEVEL SET until it occasionally flickers on the peaks. P.S. -- Please forgive me for any invalid assumptions I've made. This is a little bit like conducting intergalactic warfare using a text editor. |
Don Sullivan wrote on Fri, 12 November 2010 09:07 |
I like to record to a laptop or desktop computer hard dive using the audio line in and use software like Goldwave to boost the volume after the track is recorded. Then trim and publish to CD. |