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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Subwoofer Forum => Topic started by: Christopher Greco on January 16, 2012, 06:01:39 PM
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I acquired (4) S-1 and (2) S-2 Martin Subs a few years back and have the opportunity to put them into service on a summer concert series this year. Upon my getting them show ready, I found that the previous owner had a mixed bag of drivers installed. In the interest of getting these all to sound the same I am faced with the dilemma of what driver to employ. I happen to have quite a few JBL 2226's around the shop and in a perfect would, would love to be able to effectively use them. Any advise on whether this 15 would work would be greatly appreciated. These boxes are basically large horns with the drivers mounted in a small sealed chamber. If its not obvious the S-1 is a single 15 box and the S-2 a dual. Specification of the cabinets is attached.
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I acquired (4) S-1 and (2) S-2 Martin Subs a few years back and have the opportunity to put them into service on a summer concert series this year. Upon my getting them show ready, I found that the previous owner had a mixed bag of drivers installed. In the interest of getting these all to sound the same I am faced with the dilemma of what driver to employ. I happen to have quite a few JBL 2226's around the shop and in a perfect would, would love to be able to effectively use them. Any advise on whether this 15 would work would be greatly appreciated. These boxes are basically large horns with the drivers mounted in a small sealed chamber. If its not obvious the S-1 is a single 15 box and the S-2 a dual. Specification of the cabinets is attached.
What it comes down to is thiele small parameters Chris. If your loudspeakers thiele small
parameters fall into the spec of what Martin designed those subs for you have a fit. At this point
mabye contacting Martin and finding out what loudspeaker they loaded those cabs with will get you closer. When you get the model loudspeaker they put in the cab and the thiele small parameters of that loudspeaker you can simply go on the net and find a close match and or match.
A perfect world would be throwing any loudspeaker in any cab and having it work but that is just not the way it works..best of luck
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While everything stu says is completely true, I think the 2226 might be a close fit. I have some BH550 copies that have 2225's in them, it does seem to work quite well and they definitely perform over the 70-250Hz region, at one point I modeled them in hornresp, but have since lost the data/forgotten the results.
That's your best option, unless you get a good response from Martin, then you have a very wide array of modern drivers.
I love these old massive horn systems, and feel personally that they can sound very nice with modern processing and power amps. The high efficiency makes them feel more "lively" when mixing, IMHO.
enjoy the project!
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I acquired (4) S-1 and (2) S-2 Martin Subs a few years back and have the opportunity to put them into service on a summer concert series this year. Upon my getting them show ready, I found that the previous owner had a mixed bag of drivers installed. In the interest of getting these all to sound the same I am faced with the dilemma of what driver to employ. I happen to have quite a few JBL 2226's around the shop and in a perfect would, would love to be able to effectively use them. Any advise on whether this 15 would work would be greatly appreciated. These boxes are basically large horns with the drivers mounted in a small sealed chamber. If its not obvious the S-1 is a single 15 box and the S-2 a dual. Specification of the cabinets is attached.
Check with Martin but...I think they were the same driver as the F2B cabinet (the Martin L1540). The replacement listed in Martin's part sheets is DLS540. US retail is $925.00 each.
Lee
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Check with Martin but...I think they were the same driver as the F2B cabinet (the Martin L1540). The replacement listed in Martin's part sheets is DLS540. US retail is $925.00 each.
Lee
jaw drops...
unobtainium is cheaper... wow, 925$ for a 15" driver. I guess you can charge what the market will bear. Are Martin drivers something really special? Is it insane adherence to stringent manufacturing tolerances, etc.. or are they really rare?
I'm just wondering what creates that value in a speaker driver.
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jaw drops...
unobtainium is cheaper... wow, 925$ for a 15" driver. I guess you can charge what the market will bear. Are Martin drivers something really special? Is it insane adherence to stringent manufacturing tolerances, etc.. or are they really rare?
I'm just wondering what creates that value in a speaker driver.
The Various Martin 15" drivers at retail (not street price) range from $300.00 to $925.00. The DLS540 is only for discontinued cabinets so probably not something they move much.
I do know of some JBL 18" RECONE KITS that, 5 or 6 years ago, were $600.00 per kit, installed. I had the same thought with those about why the price would be so high.
Lee
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So far no love from the Martins, I think I'm gonna just install a pair in the dual box and try some measurements. Thanks for the help guys. ;)
The Various Martin 15" drivers at retail (not street price) range from $300.00 to $925.00. The DLS540 is only for discontinued cabinets so probably not something they move much.
I do know of some JBL 18" RECONE KITS that, 5 or 6 years ago, were $600.00 per kit, installed. I had the same thought with those about why the price would be so high.
Lee
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So far no love from the Martins, I think I'm gonna just install a pair in the dual box and try some measurements. Thanks for the help guys. ;)
hey
Martin don't actually make these drivers themselves, they are bought in from other companies and re-badged. Sometimes they are very close to the driver they are based on and sometimes martin get the original maker to tweek or change them a bit to make them more unique and work better in the particuluar box.
For the last good few years they tend to strongly favour B&C drivers in their subs so its quite possibly something from their older/discontinued ranges, and if you can find a model number you can compare the spec's to your JBL's and see if they are close. Many of the guys on the speakerplans.com forum use or collect the older martin boxes and have a good knowledge of their original drivers etc, so may be worth asking there to see if you can get a driver model.
k
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hey
Martin don't actually make these drivers themselves, they are bought in from other companies and re-badged. Sometimes they are very close to the driver they are based on and sometimes martin get the original maker to tweek or change them a bit to make them more unique and work better in the particuluar box.
For the last good few years they tend to strongly favour B&C drivers in their subs so its quite possibly something from their older/discontinued ranges, and if you can find a model number you can compare the spec's to your JBL's and see if they are close. Many of the guys on the speakerplans.com forum use or collect the older martin boxes and have a good knowledge of their original drivers etc, so may be worth asking there to see if you can get a driver model.
k
Kevin,
I finally did hear from the Martins and they told me they used RCF L15P540 which is still manufactured by RCF!!! I was hoping to put this pile of 2226's I happen to have in the shop to work so I'm gonna first give it a go with those and if they dont cut the cheese I'm gonna punt with the RCF's. Otherwise I do have some older Meyer 650r2's that will probably do the trick. Might need to pick up another B2EX so I can do the cardiod thing. Shouldn't be an issue these days as everybody seems to be using the powdered version of the 650.
Chris
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Kevin,
I finally did hear from the Martins and they told me they used RCF L15P540 which is still manufactured by RCF!!! I was hoping to put this pile of 2226's I happen to have in the shop to work so I'm gonna first give it a go with those and if they dont cut the cheese I'm gonna punt with the RCF's. Otherwise I do have some older Meyer 650r2's that will probably do the trick. Might need to pick up another B2EX so I can do the cardiod thing. Shouldn't be an issue these days as everybody seems to be using the powdered version of the 650.
Chris
These are two different beasts looking at the TSP's.
Here is the RCF TSP
Specifications: • Power handling: 500 watts RMS/1,000 watts continuous program • VCdia: 3" • Le: 1.5 mH • Impedance: 8 ohms • Re: 5.6 ohms • Frequency response: 40-2,000 Hz • Fs: 50 Hz • SPL: 98 dB 1W/1m • Vas: 3.53 cu. ft. • Qms: 9.7 • Qes: 0.41 • Qts: 0.39 • Xmax: 6.5 mm • Dimensions: Overall diameter: 15.2", Cutout diameter: 13.9", Depth: 6.4".
Here is your JBL 2226 TSP
THIELE/SMALL PARAMETERS6:
fs: 40 Hz
Re: 5.0 ohms (H)
10.0 ohms (J)
Qts: 0.31
Qms: 5.0
Qes: 0.33
Vas: 175 l (6.2 ft3)
Sd: 0.088 m2 (137 in2)
Xmax: 7.6 mm (0.30 in)
Vd: 689 cm3 (41 in3)
Le: 1.75 mH (H)
3.5 mH (J)
o (Half space)2: 3.3%
Pe (Max)1: 600 W continuous pink noise
MOUNTING INFORMATION:
Overall Diameter: 388 mm (15¹⁷⁄₆₄ in)
Bolt Circle Diameter: 370 mm (14⁹⁄₁₆ in)
Baffle Cutout Diameter
Front Mount: 355 mm (14 in)
Rear Mount: 359 mm (14⁹⁄₆₄ in)
Depth7: 137 mm (5½ in)
Volume Displaced by Driver: 6 l (0.2 ft3)
Net Weight: 8.7 kg (19¼ lb)
Shipping Weight: 10.2 kg (22½ lb)
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These are two different beasts looking at the TSP's.
Here is the RCF TSP
Specifications: • Power handling: 500 watts RMS/1,000 watts continuous program • VCdia: 3" • Le: 1.5 mH • Impedance: 8 ohms • Re: 5.6 ohms • Frequency response: 40-2,000 Hz • Fs: 50 Hz • SPL: 98 dB 1W/1m • Vas: 3.53 cu. ft. • Qms: 9.7 • Qes: 0.41 • Qts: 0.39 • Xmax: 6.5 mm • Dimensions: Overall diameter: 15.2", Cutout diameter: 13.9", Depth: 6.4".
Here is your JBL 2226 TSP
THIELE/SMALL PARAMETERS6:
fs: 40 Hz
Re: 5.0 ohms (H)
10.0 ohms (J)
Qts: 0.31
Qms: 5.0
Qes: 0.33
Vas: 175 l (6.2 ft3)
Sd: 0.088 m2 (137 in2)
Xmax: 7.6 mm (0.30 in)
Vd: 689 cm3 (41 in3)
Le: 1.75 mH (H)
3.5 mH (J)
o (Half space)2: 3.3%
Pe (Max)1: 600 W continuous pink noise
MOUNTING INFORMATION:
Overall Diameter: 388 mm (15¹⁷⁄₆₄ in)
Bolt Circle Diameter: 370 mm (14⁹⁄₁₆ in)
Baffle Cutout Diameter
Front Mount: 355 mm (14 in)
Rear Mount: 359 mm (14⁹⁄₆₄ in)
Depth7: 137 mm (5½ in)
Volume Displaced by Driver: 6 l (0.2 ft3)
Net Weight: 8.7 kg (19¼ lb)
Shipping Weight: 10.2 kg (22½ lb)
Stu,
I thought that the TSP's were more critical when dealing with a ported front loaded cab as opposed to a horn loaded.
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Stu,
I thought that the TSP's were more critical when dealing with a ported front loaded cab as opposed to a horn loaded.
The bottom line is you will get different results.. The "result" was a design by Martin
with a loudspeaker that has the TSP of the RCF loudspeaker
Have you heard of Hornresp?
Check it out.........
http://www.hornresp.net.ms/