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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Matt Vivlamore on June 17, 2019, 07:59:31 PM
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After selling everything 3 years ago and enjoyed my time off/away; But now I’ve got the bug to get back into the business. However, I am at a crossroads on what vehicle to purchase. In a few of years, I am planning on getting back into the Wedding Biz. If I am on a downtown job, I want to be able to put all the gear into 1 vehicle (no trailer) and head the gig. After unloading, I want to be able to pull it into the buildings parking garage without any issues. I currently own a ’16 Golf R for my daily/commuter and it works great for the freelance/walk in gigs.
My previous gear hauler was a ’06 Chevy 3500 Express cargo van (diesel and extended version). This was a GREAT hauler but with 1 HUGE issue; it didn’t fit in parking garages (in DC & Baltimore). Before the Cargo Van, I had an ’04 Chevy Silverado 1500, 4x4, Crew Cab, 5.5’ bed with a 5x8 Cargo Trailer.
Part of me wants Mini Cargo Van, but for the house stuff I think see myself needing a Truck instead. I do have around a $8k-12k budget, I can’t afford anything new.
Mini Cargo Van:
Ford Transit Connect, LWB, 2014+
Ram Promaster City
Truck
Chevy/GMC Silverado/Sierra 1500; extended cab, 6.5’ bed with a cap/camper shell
The planned Rig (some is TBD or equivalently sized):
2x SRX812w/ETX12P/DZR12
2x SRX818SP/ETX-18P/DZR18XLF
4x PRX812W/K12.2
1x 8sp case (rack mixer & digital snake)
2x EWI C005-DC trunks (cables)
2x Pelican 1510 cases (mics/work box)
1x Pelican iM3220 (mic case)
2x Chauvet 4BAR/ADJ Dotz TPar system
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Extended van I can see as a problem but if a pickup fit in the parking garage, won't a full sized van? You're going to need it when you buy 2 more subs because you know you're going to want 4.
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From my point of view open trucks, such as pickups, are good for hauling low-value, weather-indifferent materials, such as manure. Sound equipment needs to travel in an enclosed vehicle for weather protection and security. Maybe get a CAD/sketch program, or some graph paper and scissors, and floor plan your gear to figure out what size van you need. The trouble with camper shells (as we call them out west) is that you need to crawl -- doesn't work for me. Pickups also have a horrible bed-length (cab-to axel) to overall length ratio.
I don't have an answer for the low overhead clearance situation except to get a low-roof van and suffer in those situations where even that doesn't fit. I do love vans. For me they are the best compromise.
--Frank
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If I am on a downtown job, I want to be able to put all the gear into 1 vehicle (no trailer) and head the gig. After unloading, I want to be able to pull it into the buildings parking garage without any issues.
I can't speak to the specific models you mention, or their cargo capacity as it pertains to your prospective gear.
I'd just throw out that I'd much rather load in and out of a low deck mini-cargo van (potentially using a ramp if there is room to store it) than into a pickup bed. That includes having to maneuver and situate the cargo in the given space...I'd rather crawl into the back of the van than into the pick up bed. Also, with the van you can have the option of side loading in/out curbside while parallel parked on a crowded city street if necessary.
I will admit I'd rather drive a pickup the rest of the time, for non-gig/house-work use.
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I'd just throw out that I'd much rather load in and out of a low deck mini-cargo van (potentially using a ramp if there is room to store it) then into a pickup bed. That includes having to maneuver and situation the cargo in the given space, I'd rather crawl into the back of the van than into the pick up bed. Also, with the van you can have the option of side loading in/out curbside while parallel parked on a crowded city street if necessary
Yes, yes, and yes. -F
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Since you don't want a trailer I would go with a van that meets your needs. We currently rent one from U-Haul for our small conferences. If you could go with a trailer then I would definitely go truck and trailer. However as you said either truck or van no trailer.
Bill
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Yes, yes, and yes. -F
+10 I don't think you will get all that in a Transit Connect. We looked at one, really nice and so easy to get around but not useful except to deliver a projector, fast fold, lectern and speaker!
I would think a standard height van would be good.
Pickup truck is out of the question for load height and security.
The smallest van I would consider is a Chevy Astro. They are getting hard to find in good shape. If you want something new and nice and a good size look at the Mercedes Metris cargo vans.
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I have a similar amount of gear and I fit it no problem in a 2004 Escalade.
They can be had for cheap money and are bullet proof (knocks on wood).
Like the comfort of it much more than the minivan I was using years back.
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I've been running a 2006 Dodge Sprinter high-top extended length since 2012, and I'm real happy with it. The motor is the 5cyl diesel. I can't say too much bad about it... I bought it somewhat cheap, it was an ex-delivery van with about 250K on it. I've put another 100K miles on it since I bought it. I probably put a couple $K into it when I first bought it... new tires, new brakes, fixed the little broken stuff (new/used seats, replaced burnt-out lights, some other funky stuff that was hack-"fixed" in the past)… but since then I haven't had much problems... just routine service and I did glow plugs a couple years ago. The rig drives nice and makes good fuel mileage for what it is. It's kind-of a rattle-trap empty... but that's ok... I don't listen to the radio anyway. It doesn't like to start much below 10°F unless I plug it in (which isn't always an option). What I really like about it is I can stand-up inside (I'm 6'2") and it hauls a lot of gear for something that drives like a decent car.
I still have my 20ft. cab-over box truck with lift gate for bigger shows, but for the smaller knock-around stuff the Sprinter works great.
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I drive a full-size Ford Transit short body short roof van as my daily driver. I have a monthly parking contract downtown and the van fits in 7' clearance ramps, and as was said above, isn't any bigger than a pickup. In fact, it's 5" shorter front to back than my previous short frame Express while having the same (actually slightly more due to squarer sides) cargo volume. They have been out for almost 5 years now - you should be able to find one around your budget.
BTW - one quirk about the Transits - get the sliding side door instead of the swinging doors. The handle on the swinging doors butts into the cargo area almost 4". With the slider, I put an EWI work box plus a pair of Danley TH118s in and they fit like a glove.
Trucks are for bikes and dirt. Vans are for gear. Mine is windowless and I like it that way - I leave stuff in it and don't worry about browsing eyes (I did make covers out of 1/4" Baltic ply for the bulkhead vents painted to match, so you can't see into the cargo area from the front either).
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Too old to be in the running, but the Chevy Astro cargo van meets most of the requirements you list. Body on frame, all wheel drive, sliding side door, etc. About 8' cargo, about 48" rear door clearance, and a fold-in-half 8' ramp works well enough for one guy to push wheeled road case and subs in by himself.
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A vote for the unfortunately discontinued Chevy/GMC Astro/Safari for all the aforementioned attributes. A 1997 GMC Safari SLT passenger model dealer new purchase with rear hatch/ barn doors with current odometer reading of 150Kish has served me faithfully, meeting and exceeding my expectations, serving as a quick-change family to duty vehicle, able to hide in undergrounds with a 5x8 Wells Cargo in tow, all while passing muster for the discerning hotel, event halls, residential front driveways. The planned rig WILL fit. More speaker boxes would warrant my Isuzu/GMC 16' box truck.
Not knowing the OP location, FYI, the SoCal region of the country has long been a source for an abundance of better weathered motor vehicles in large part to the relatively temperate weather and of course the sheer volume and variety.
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Another vote for a van. I have a Diesel Ford Excursion (think Suburban, only bigger). It holds a ton of gear but you have to climb up in to load gear in and out - and the deck height is much higher than a van. The one advantage it does have is I can tow my 10k lb trailer no problem. But if hauling sound gear was its only mission, I'd have a van no question.
I also agree with the comments above about pickup trucks - you want your gear enclosed and secure. The only reason to get a pickup is you need it for something else and plan to haul your gear in a trailer.
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get a new Pacifica Hybrid, for passengers and cargo!
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Obviously no one here has ever seen a bed top. Get a pickup. Get a tall top on the bed with no windows and a solid back lift door. I'm 5'10" and can almost stand straight up in the top. If you need more room at times get a trailer the size you need for the other stuff. You dont need a crew cab or dually. I standard cab with an 8 foot bed. A Ford F150 is ideal. This is my truck with the LEER brand tallest top and no side or front windows. Its water tight. I have a dually because I pull a 32 foot trailer at times and the extra 2 rear tires prevents sway and makes the truck very stable. a foto of mine.
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After selling everything 3 years ago and enjoyed my time off/away; But now I’ve got the bug to get back into the business. However, I am at a crossroads on what vehicle to purchase. In a few of years, I am planning on getting back into the Wedding Biz. If I am on a downtown job, I want to be able to put all the gear into 1 vehicle (no trailer) and head the gig. After unloading, I want to be able to pull it into the buildings parking garage without any issues. I currently own a ’16 Golf R for my daily/commuter and it works great for the freelance/walk in gigs.
My previous gear hauler was a ’06 Chevy 3500 Express cargo van (diesel and extended version). This was a GREAT hauler but with 1 HUGE issue; it didn’t fit in parking garages (in DC & Baltimore). Before the Cargo Van, I had an ’04 Chevy Silverado 1500, 4x4, Crew Cab, 5.5’ bed with a 5x8 Cargo Trailer.
Part of me wants Mini Cargo Van, but for the house stuff I think see myself needing a Truck instead. I do have around a $8k-12k budget, I can’t afford anything new.
Mini Cargo Van:
Ford Transit Connect, LWB, 2014+
Ram Promaster City
Truck
Chevy/GMC Silverado/Sierra 1500; extended cab, 6.5’ bed with a cap/camper shell
The planned Rig (some is TBD or equivalently sized):
2x SRX812w/ETX12P/DZR12
2x SRX818SP/ETX-18P/DZR18XLF
4x PRX812W/K12.2
1x 8sp case (rack mixer & digital snake)
2x EWI C005-DC trunks (cables)
2x Pelican 1510 cases (mics/work box)
1x Pelican iM3220 (mic case)
2x Chauvet 4BAR/ADJ Dotz TPar system
As others have indicated, you need to get another cargo van. Electronics need to be covered while transported and stored (and not by a tarp). Check for "fleet sales" dealerships in your area for used commercial vehicles. I own an '06 3/4 ton cargo (with a bulk-head cage), I use for small to mid-sized events. It's standard length. Will be looking at the same type of cargo van when it comes time to upgrade.
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get a new Pacifica Hybrid, for passengers and cargo!
Please let me know where you can get one of these in Matt’s $8000 - $12000 budget range. I’d love one for the family. :)
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Obviously no one here has ever seen a bed top. Get a pickup. Get a tall top on the bed with no windows and a solid back lift door. I'm 5'10" and can almost stand straight up in the top. If you need more room at times get a trailer the size you need for the other stuff. You dont need a crew cab or dually. I standard cab with an 8 foot bed. A Ford F150 is ideal. This is my truck with the LEER brand tallest top and no side or front windows. Its water tight. I have a dually because I pull a 32 foot trailer at times and the extra 2 rear tires prevents sway and makes the truck very stable. a foto of mine.
Toppers are OK, but they are less secure than a van, and a truck is still inferior to a van for payload they load higher and hold less. A standard length cargo van has about 9’ 5” for usable length behind the bulkhead, and though you can put a tall topper on it, once you do, it won’t fit in a parking ramp. Vans have more cargo capacity and unless you get into a giant truck, more payload weight capacity than pickups.
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If you're considering using a pickup with a topper, a Chevy Suburban should hold just as much gear with the 3rd row seats removed, and the rear seats flipped forward.
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If you're considering using a pickup with a topper, a Chevy Suburban should hold just as much gear with the 3rd row seats removed, and the rear seats flipped forward.
Yes, same body as my Escalade. Fits an amazing amount of gear.
Smaller gigs I can do without even folding down the second row seats.
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2014+ Transit Connect
I have a 2013 T/C- last of the old style.
I needed windows (so my wife would drive it) and rear seat, split fold down. The flip-up seats don't offer that much extra space, but is usable.
Remaining cargo area fits 3 Alto monitors, 2 Evox 8, mic and DI cases and all the crates in the back, and still see out of the rear view mirror. Plenty of room to stack higher. Needs a net between cargo and passengers, or tie it all down. It could be about a foot longer to be perfect for me. I have the 180 degree open doors. Nice. The 270 degree doors are nicer yet.
New TC
Either turbo 4 or larger 4, two extra speeds on trans. Lower roof line.
If 2 seat only, lots of room, (not enough for a 4x8 sheet of ply) and very low lift-in height.
If window version, 2+3+3 only three rows of seats available. All fold down (kind of) but sucks up about 18" of the available height. The extra height is about a foot into the van, so the extra lift could be a back breaker, literally, due to the lift-away-from-body position. As load is all pied on top of the folded seats, I'm not sure how it would handle the types of loads we encounter. The resulting floor is not flat/stable enough for rolling stock. For me, a poison pill.
Can 3rd row get taken out? I'm sure, but I don't know how all the rest will work.
Some models come minivan-style flip-up tailgate vs swing doors.
With only those two seating options, the older van had more space for my uses. I feel they screwed the pooch (probably govt regs...). 2+3 on the 2014+ is available only to fleet owners... and I think panel only.
If available 2+3 LWB, it may be better than the 2013.
2+0 I would recommend.
Anything else, no.
frank
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Matt,
Another vote for the Astro Van. But as someone mentioned; they are really hard to find in good shape these days. In lieu of that, maybe a Suburban or a Ford Expedition. I down sized to a Honda Pilot when my Astro died and It is too small for a system with subs. Just make sure that whatever you get is square at the back. The newer rounded back vehicles suffer from a lack of room. Good Luck and keep us informed.
Scott
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As a guy who has owned wagons, SUVs, pick-ups, cargo vans and trailers....
My vote: Transit Connect all day long
After we bought the Transit 250HD cargo medium roof and installed a folding ramp in the back, there was no looking back. Rarely used the trailer for anything, and it was by far the best vehicle I've ever owned.
Jeff from JTR can fit eight of his Orbit Shifters in the back of his Transit Connect. I'd buy the TC and be done with it. They are amazing vehicles. Easy on maintenance as well.
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A pickup with a shell/canopy/topper (whatever you want to call it) can be workable, but from the standpoint of use as an enclosed cargo hauler, it has a lot of drawbacks as others have mentioned:
- You can't stand up straight, even with (most) high-rise canopies
- Deck height is higher than a van
- Canopies tend to be less secure (the locks are flimsy)
I have a pickup with a high-rise canopy. At least with the high-rise, I don't have to crawl; I can just bend over. But the problem with doing that is scraping your spine on the top of the door frame. I don't know how many times I've done that, and it hurts every single time and hurts for a long time afterwards. In fact, my back hurts right now just thinking about it. But I'd rather have the high-rise than one that complements the roof line of the cab.
And, since I use this for personal/farm stuff, being able to take the canopy off is useful. (I've got a hoist system in my shed that allows me to remove or install it in about 10-15 minutes.) So that's why I have a pickup instead of a van, and I don't have both because I'm too cheap to justify any more rigs than I already have.
I'd say go for the van, and get an open trailer you can use to haul the home stuff that you'd otherwise use a pickup for.
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My tailgate "mini-van rig is:
2 SRX718+715
4x PRX712 (if needed)
8 space rack
5 foot DJ coffin
10x10 tent
cables, mic stands, cable trunk
...sometimes will trade 712 space for Honda EU3000 generator and 55"TV for tailgating
2005 Chrysler Town & Country with Stow & Go with more than 200k miles now.
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After selling everything 3 years ago and enjoyed my time off/away; But now I’ve got the bug to get back into the business. However, I am at a crossroads on what vehicle to purchase. In a few of years, I am planning on getting back into the Wedding Biz. If I am on a downtown job, I want to be able to put all the gear into 1 vehicle (no trailer) and head the gig. After unloading, I want to be able to pull it into the buildings parking garage without any issues. I currently own a ’16 Golf R for my daily/commuter and it works great for the freelance/walk in gigs.
My previous gear hauler was a ’06 Chevy 3500 Express cargo van (diesel and extended version). This was a GREAT hauler but with 1 HUGE issue; it didn’t fit in parking garages (in DC & Baltimore). Before the Cargo Van, I had an ’04 Chevy Silverado 1500, 4x4, Crew Cab, 5.5’ bed with a 5x8 Cargo Trailer.
Part of me wants Mini Cargo Van, but for the house stuff I think see myself needing a Truck instead. I do have around a $8k-12k budget, I can’t afford anything new.
Mini Cargo Van:
Ford Transit Connect, LWB, 2014+
Ram Promaster City
Truck
Chevy/GMC Silverado/Sierra 1500; extended cab, 6.5’ bed with a cap/camper shell
The planned Rig (some is TBD or equivalently sized):
2x SRX812w/ETX12P/DZR12
2x SRX818SP/ETX-18P/DZR18XLF
4x PRX812W/K12.2
1x 8sp case (rack mixer & digital snake)
2x EWI C005-DC trunks (cables)
2x Pelican 1510 cases (mics/work box)
1x Pelican iM3220 (mic case)
2x Chauvet 4BAR/ADJ Dotz TPar system
Welcome back,
I am still using the f250 with top plus trailer as needed, but the truck is double duty as it also tows my camp trailer and does significant off-road duty when fishing.
On a side note, are you still in and? I keep driving by the Texaco (shell) wondering how much rent they want for the empty shop. Plus it has the fenced yard for vehicles.
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As a guy who has owned wagons, SUVs, pick-ups, cargo vans and trailers....
My vote: Transit Connect all day long
After we bought the Transit 250HD cargo medium roof and installed a folding ramp in the back, there was no looking back. Rarely used the trailer for anything, and it was by far the best vehicle I've ever owned.
Jeff from JTR can fit eight of his Orbit Shifters in the back of his Transit Connect. I'd buy the TC and be done with it. They are amazing vehicles. Easy on maintenance as well.
8 orbit shifters in a Transic Connect? Even an LWB I find that very surprising. I rented a TC to try out, it was a 2+0. I could not get 4 KW181's, 2 KW 153's, 5 HPT 12" monitors, two quarter packs an x32 compact in it. I played truck tetris for 2 hours trying to make it work.
I really wanted it to work too.
I mentioned the Aastro's. I have one Astro left. It's an AWD and I it's only going to make it another 2 winters before the rust starts to creep up past the rocker panels.
As far as history of vans. I started off with a Chevy Venture then added an Old Silhouette. I retired both of them before start of season this year, got almost 5 years out of them. Air shocks in both and they could take the above mentioned load. So easy to work on and easy load height.
As the business grew I picked up a 2008 E350 with a 6L Powerstroke Diesel. Thanks to Jeff Bankston's advice we did some mods (EGR delete, tapped head studs a few new injectors and a few other odds and ends). With two levels of etrack it's a real workhorse, pulls hard and gets great gas mileage. I am hoping to get 500k out of that diesel. This van is white with a perfect body and glass so it makes the cut at the event centers and country clubs.
I found the AWD Astro that had been sitting for years. Took me 2 months to get the vinyl lettering off and of course you can still see the shadows. Put about 2k in it and it is a great (not looking) knock around small gig van.
Anything bigger and I have a commercial account at Penske. They try their hardest to get us white trucks instead of zonker yellow.
The production company I work very closely with still has an 18ft (or so) 1986 Uhaul. All sorts of patches on the box and it looks like hell but the diesel engine is super easy to work on and amazingly it still runs strong. We use it for the summer lawn chair gigs. I can get the decks and the PA in it. It's ugly but gets the job done!
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I've owned pickup trucks twice in the last thirty years of doing sound(and being everyone's friend when things needed moving), the current one since 2011 is a full size 8' bed Silverado with fiberglass cap(only windows are front and back, no side units). It has worked nicely, but a couple of things have come up in the last year or two. First, the height to the deck vs a van is a bit of an issue now as I've developed arthritis in my left hip. I keep a stepstool that I made in back now. I also injured my knee crawling around in back one gig during load in/out by leaning my weight on it too much and on the corrugated metal floor at one of the ridges/edges(I also keep a few of those interlocking foam tiles typically used for a workshop floor in back to kneel on).
So, the last few times I've had to rent a cargo van have been very telling-I would go with a van that held gear for the majority of the gigs I do, and rent something larger when needed. I want to test something like a Ford Transit Connect Cargo Van and see if the same basic rig that fits in the pickup will fit in one(obviously stacking more in the van).
The "dream machine" would be a Sprinter or other high cube cargo van with a flip down ramp installed inside the rear doors:
https://www.handiramp.com/product/handi-ramp-sprinter-van-ramps/
The ability to stand fully upright(I'm 5' 11" and shrinking), and have a nice ramp are very appealing to this 61 year old-the big question is do I want to invest that kind of capitol with retirement(at least in the equipment deployment/setup end of the biz) hopefully looming in a few years?
I do recommend going with the van and ramp option now while you're younger, it'll hopefully save wear and tear on you down the road.
Best regards,
John
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8 orbit shifters in a Transic Connect? Even an LWB I find that very surprising. I rented a TC to try out, it was a 2+0. I could not get 4 KW181's, 2 KW 153's, 5 HPT 12" monitors, two quarter packs an x32 compact in it. I played truck tetris for 2 hours trying to make it work.
I think Steve means the Ford Transit full size van, not the Connect. Didn't he have one for sale here?
I'm still renting when I need a full size van and I can state that Ford's newer Transit models are much better than the old design, but still being made GMC 2500 series. The Ford's are easier to load, drive, and they get better fuel economy. I'm not sure if Matt can find any on the used market in his price range, but I have to think that the normal roof height Ford Transit will fit in parking garages.
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If you do end up with a pickup, absolutely get a heavy rubber floor mat. It should be thick enough that you can easily roll a wheeled case sideways, across the ridges of the box floor.
The rubber mat will help keep things from sliding around, and it will save your knees.
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As a guy who has owned wagons, SUVs, pick-ups, cargo vans and trailers....
My vote: Transit Connect all day long
After we bought the Transit 250HD cargo medium roof and installed a folding ramp in the back, there was no looking back. Rarely used the trailer for anything, and it was by far the best vehicle I've ever owned.
Jeff from JTR can fit eight of his Orbit Shifters in the back of his Transit Connect. I'd buy the TC and be done with it. They are amazing vehicles. Easy on maintenance as well.
Steve,
I think you're mixing the Transit (full size) van with the smaller Transit Connect (small panel van).
I think Steve means the Ford Transit full size van, not the Connect. Didn't he have one for sale here?
I'm still renting when I need a full size van and I can state that Ford's newer Transit models are much better than the old design, but still being made GMC 2500 series. The Ford's are easier to load, drive, and they get better fuel economy. I'm not sure if Matt can find any on the used market in his price range, but I have to think that the normal roof height Ford Transit will fit in parking garages.
As stated earlier, another foot in length for my (2013) TC would go a long way to making it perfect for me.
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If you do end up with a pickup, absolutely get a heavy rubber floor mat. It should be thick enough that you can easily roll a wheeled case sideways, across the ridges of the box floor.
The rubber mat will help keep things from sliding around, and it will save your knees.
Except that with a cap on the truck, you want things to slide around so you can load/unload more easily. If you must cover the bed, take the time to cut out plywood and fit it.
Best regards,
John
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Guys - my bad. I combined two different scenarios...
Jeff (JTR) has the small Transit Connect and could fit six (6) OS in his. It's the cargo only version, only 2 front seats. I believe he recently bought a full size Transit as well...
I (me) had the Transit Cargo 250HD MR with a folding ramp. It could fit an *amazing* amount of gear. We rarely used the trailer after buying the full size Transit. I sold it to a cheese making company back in April.
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If you must cover the bed, take the time to cut out plywood and fit it.
Plywood, or some kind of wood, still has the best properties for a cargo floor that I know. Metal is too slippery. Rubber, soft vinyl, and the like present too much resistance to casters. When making a floor for my (full size) Transit I selected softwood plywood with a thick veneer and gave it several coats of an acrylic varnish to harden it a little. With a bit of common sense it has held up pretty well. Most of the damage it has is from little rocks that stick to the bottoms of boxes, totes and other objects that gouge the plywood when dragged. In the long run it's consumable but it may last longer than I will. --Frank
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I too will throw in another vote for a van.
I use my Chevy Express (full size utility van) for 95% of my work. When hauling sound equipment, I can fit 6 Yorkville U15s, 6 Yorkville UCS1s, FOH Rack, dLive, amp racks, wireless rack, 6 meters of truss, some simple lighting, a few monitors if needed, cable ramps, and my cases of cables and wired mics. This just about reaches the limit on both volume and weight capacity. Anything bigger and I rent a Budget Truck. I personally don’t care for trailers - especially if driving through congested downtown traffic. Vans and trucks all the way for me!
One thing to consider with the Transit/Sprinter Vans and similar is while you can gain height and length, you’re still stuck with width (which tends to be about 52” between the wheel wells). While this isn’t an issue for smaller equipment it becomes a significant limiting factor when moving larger single items such as dual 18” subs. Box trucks get you a full 90-96” across plus plenty of height to stand up inside. Hope this helps!
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One thing to consider with the Transit/Sprinter Vans and similar is while you can gain height and length, you’re still stuck with width (which tends to be about 52” between the wheel wells). While this isn’t an issue for smaller equipment it becomes a significant limiting factor when moving larger single items such as dual 18” subs. Box trucks get you a full 90-96” across plus plenty of height to stand up inside. Hope this helps!
Agreed. My Sprinter van is the 3500 (1 ton) dually, and it's just a tad under 40" wide between the wheel wells... just a bit too narrow between the wheel wells to accommodate a standard 40" wide pallet... major design flaw IMO... especially since there's plenty of clearance in the wheel wells for the stock tires. If they made the wheel wells with just another 1/2" of clearance between them would have been "much better" and I don't see any reason why Dodge didn't... except as-is it fits some "metric pallets" fine between the wheel wells.
I also have a 2006 Sprinter 3500 with a 14ft. box/box truck. Draw-backs with it is: the cab is cramped... the seats do not go far enough back for my liking (knees up to my chin or so it feels). And the deck height is like another foot higher than my Sprinter van... high enough with the box truck that I can't "roll" cases and such up onto the deck like I can with the van, and 2-person lifting up into the box truck is "much more difficult" than into the van... so using the ramp or fork lift is typically a must with the box truck. But the deck height of the box truck is like 8" lower than a standard 48" height dock... so it's a PITA there too. Also the box on the box truck... I really notice the extra weight of the box, and side winds hit it a lot harder than the van. With extra weight and surfaces, I don't get near the mileage with the box truck that I do with the van, even though both the van and box truck have the same power train. The box truck will haul basically twice the gear as the van... but weight can easily become an issue with the box truck. And even empty, the driving the box truck is more like "herding it" than driving it... the van drives much nicer. The roll-up back door of the box truck is anything but "dust tight"... no matter what I done to try and seal it up... the dust just boils into the box on gravel roads. The van is much tighter sealed per the cargo bay.
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Another vote for a van.
In my market, the only companies using pickups are those who do gardening or picking up shit dumped on the sides of streets. Everyone else uses Sprinters, Transits, etc or larger box trucks. I'm 6'2" and do not have an issue with headroom with the high roof models thankfully usually deployed
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These days you have small (read not tall) vans from RAM and Nissan. A guy around here has two Nissan vans. One tall & wide and the other not so much.
I am pretty sure the small one fits garages but check height.
For a commencement, we fit 2 projectors in road cases, 2 fast folds, 2 5’ sticks of truss, 3 ST132 with 3 2x15” speakers, 2 front fills, mixer w/remote stage box, rigging, video mixer, wireless mic case (4 receivers) and cable cases for power, XLR, and video cable and a couple of pelican cases for misc and a magliner and ramp in the small one.
Get a folding wheelchair ramp to put at the back.
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I drive a small van called a Mazda Bongo. It probably looks ridiculous to the Americans who tend to drive big vehicles but they are cheap and very common here in NZ. I can fit a lot of gear in it and it's extremely cheap to run with a 1.8l petrol engine.
I think a van is much better than a pickup, as you have more height to stack gear up. Also you can load out the sides as well as back which can be very helpful.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-006_BeugK0A/U8kSCQ6NzMI/AAAAAAAAV68/Q4uxApHy-uA/s1600/Mazda+Bongo+front+view.jpg)
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Chevy discontinued the City / Express, but it is a nice compact minivan that can certainly fit two 18" subs, tops, monitors and other peripherals ( mixer etc. ). You can probably find a used one pretty cheap. The Ford Transit ( same as the Mercedes Metris ) is another option with nearly identical features and spec. Nissan has the NV line and the NV-1500 is the smallest of them. It is also the ugliest car line ever made, but it functions rather well. If you want to look like someone that belongs on To Catch A Predator, stay away from the Astro's, Safari's, and other such vans that now seem to have some folklore.
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If you want to look like someone that belongs on To Catch A Predator, stay away from the Astro's, Safari's, and other such vans that now seem to have some folklore.
Any van with curtains. I used a passenger van with window curtains to haul small amounts of gear. Stopped more with that van than ALL my other vehicles combined. The only good thing was I could do common repairs and maintenance on it myself.
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I looked for a new van option for quite a while before settling on a Mercedes Metris. My three main criteria were: A) More capacity than my Grand Caravan B) fit into the 6'8" parking garages in Chicago C) fit a 4x8 sheet of material with the doors closed.
I figured I had 3 options:
1) Used Astro van - can't remember why I dismissed this. 2) Used early 2000's Ram B1500 short wheel base van - couldn't find any that weren't rusted out for a decent price but this would have been awesome. Lots of room and very short length too. 3) Newish MB Metris.
I was very hesitant to get into the MB family considering the high maintenance costs as well as a significant purchase price. The jury is still out on how well it's going to work out for my dilapidated pocketbook. But so far, I've got to admit, it's a nice ride. It's a very good size for what I need it for, handles very well, usually makes me dizzy when accelerating hard off the line (I'm no fighter pilot) and fits into all the garages, even the 6'6" ones. I recently loaded two LAB subs into it and it without a ramp and it was stupid easy. Similar to Mark's technique, I just tipped the sub up and onto the low floor and then tipped the back up and slid it in. I fit the two LABs, a couple mains, a small amp rack, a few wedges and a roadcase of LEDs with room to spare. I know that's vague but consider that most minivans can only fit one LAB at most, just on account of the small door openings alone. The wide, clear door openings make a big difference on what you can get into and out of it.
If I'm not mistaken, the smallest "full size" van currently being made is just over 80" tall. I don't remember which Make/Model that is. All the less than "full size" cargo vans are too small for a full sheet of material, and really too small to haul as much gear as I would like. There aren't any other vans from the last few years in the size category of the Metris. It's a unique vehicle in several ways beyond size (rwd etc). But they are hard to find used for under $17k or so, especially with any comfort options. The first year in the US was 2016.
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Any van with curtains. I used a passenger van with window curtains to haul small amounts of gear. Stopped more with that van than ALL my other vehicles combined. The only good thing was I could do common repairs and maintenance on it myself.
I used to borrow a black, kind of crusty-looking van to deliver my stage.
Once, when driving through a neighborhood looking for the house number, I swear, all the moms grabbed their kids.
I named the van the Predator after that. :o
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Any van with curtains. I used a passenger van with window curtains to haul small amounts of gear. Stopped more with that van than ALL my other vehicles combined. The only good thing was I could do common repairs and maintenance on it myself.
Funny - I've been using passenger vans. I always thought it was better because it looks like a church van. I had tinted windows though instead of the curtains.
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I have looked into replacing what we have (2014 Toyota Sienna) a few times but each time we keep what we have for the following reasons:
We have 150 cu ft of cargo space with seats removed.
We get well over 20MPG up to 26/27 highway.
We can fold the third row seats and easily pull up if needed.
We can park anywhere.
It is comfortable - drives more like a car than a van
It has extremely dark tints for security added at the dealership before we bought it.
We use it as a true mini van when we have family or friends visiting us - seats up to 8 people.
We can pull our 5x8 trailer if we need more room. Towbar is fitted.
This is the 2nd Sienna we have owned and we love it.
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I have looked into replacing what we have (2014 Toyota Sienna) a few times but each time we keep what we have for the following reasons:
We have 150 cu ft of cargo space with seats removed.
We get well over 20MPG up to 26/27 highway.
We can fold the third row seats and easily pull up if needed.
We can park anywhere.
It is comfortable - drives more like a car than a van
It has extremely dark tints for security added at the dealership before we bought it.
We use it as a true mini van when we have family or friends visiting us - seats up to 8 people.
We can pull our 5x8 trailer if we need more room. Towbar is fitted.
This is the 2nd Sienna we have owned and we love it.
+1
also- a 4x8 sheet of plywood will lay down in back.
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+1
also- a 4x8 sheet of plywood will lay down in back.
I've heard a lot of praise for the Sienna. It might be the best of the bunch among the passenger oriented mini vans.
And the Mazda Bongo looks spectacular! That short wheel base has got to mean a splendidly tight turning radius!
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Box van with liftgate here. Why? I don't like stacking/tilting/lifting things. When i need to rent one i rent one very near, very cheap. I talked to the rental guy, and because i need it at night, and return it before morning, with very low miles, i get a very special rate. Parking is no problem here.
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And the Mazda Bongo looks spectacular! That short wheel base has got to mean a splendidly tight turning radius!
I love my little Bongo! It does indeed turn on a dime and has no trouble hauling an entire band rig, PA, stage rack, lighting rig, drum kit, guitar and bass rigs, etc, etc.
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I do most of my lighting gigs and the smaller sound gigs with mt Honda Fit.
I call it my mini-mini-van.
It's amazing how much stuff I've crammed in there.
Ow, my aching suspension :o
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And as a bit of a topic swerve to add Japanese people carriers (mini-vans to those in the US) with strange names how about a Toyota Estima Lucida Charme Pleasure Wagon with Joyful Canopy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iajK7uuM6w.
As for mini-vans (from a UK perspective at least, and from non-driving experience (I don't drive but have been passenger/loader/un-loader of the Citroen Dispatch, Berlingo, Nemo and Ford Transit Connect)) the Citroen Dispatch (Jumpy) is relatively large, has sliding doors both size and is not hugely taller than their smaller cousin the Berlingo. If you want car sized but with real versatility then the car versions of the various mini-vans have the advantage of being able to carry 5 people (inc. driver) one minuet and a good load hauler the next.
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Toyota Estima Lucida Charme PLEASURE WAGON with Joyful Canopy.
Pleasure Wagon?...... That is just too funny. Makes me giggle...
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Pleasure Wagon?...... That is just too funny. Makes me giggle...
And don't forget the "Joyful Canopy". ;)
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And as a bit of a topic swerve to add Japanese people carriers (mini-vans to those in the US) with strange names how about a Toyota Estima Lucida Charme Pleasure Wagon with Joyful Canopy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iajK7uuM6w.
As for mini-vans (from a UK perspective at least, and from non-driving experience (I don't drive but have been passenger/loader/un-loader of the Citroen Dispatch, Berlingo, Nemo and Ford Transit Connect)) the Citroen Dispatch (Jumpy) is relatively large, has sliding doors both size and is not hugely taller than their smaller cousin the Berlingo. If you want car sized but with real versatility then the car versions of the various mini-vans have the advantage of being able to carry 5 people (inc. driver) one minuet and a good load hauler the next.
As an American that has spent some time in Europe I am really jealous at all the "right size" vans and box trucks. Our vehicles are like our french fries (chips) and come in three sizes, huge, huger and with a free coronary bypass!
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As someone who uses a trailer, I vote along with the majority of responders and say cargo van all the way.
Here's a "learn from my mistakes" story:
Started hauling small system in the back of a brand new Cadillac SRX with the seats folded down.
Switch to a Toyota 4Runner when my wife's Tacoma got 100% recalled and Toyota bought it back at 150% of street value.
Switched later to a trailer when I got serious and bought my Unity rig along with a lot more utility items and spare gear and towed it with the 4Runner. Considered trading the 4Runner for a van at this time but the trailer was a much cheaper option and I needed the vehicle for the work commute and knew I could leave the trailer loaded all the time.
Since I was now using the trailer, I then put everything on wheels.
Started going thru brakes and rotors on the 4 runner like crazy even though I was well within the tow rating. ( thankfully I bought pads and rotors with life time warranties and got two additional sets of rotors and pads for nothing)
Here's where I made my big mistake: I traded the wife's "paid for" 4Runner on a $25,000 used Suburban to tow the trailer. My wife ends up with my newer Caddie so she's all for it.
Suburban tows trailer like it's not even there. And the ride is actually smoother than the SRX. Plus for me.
The problem now is the combined length of the trailer and the Suburban makes parking in urban areas a nightmare and getting in and out of places with small lots with only one in/out path sometimes impossible, especially some of these " in the woods" wedding venues. Ran into many places at the end of long narrow driveways where there was no room to turn the trailer around and backing the entire rig out just wasn't an viable option. Had to unhook and manually turn everything around numerous times.
So now for about 30% of my gigs I end up manually loading gear into the back of my Suburban which means a lot of extra work loading cables etc. out of my rolling trunk into bins, and loading cabinets in/out one at a time instead of rolling multiple groups of speakers on just two carts. Plus, I risk not having a lot of the back up and "what if" gear with me that stays in the trailer. Need an unexpected side fill? Sorry, it is back home in the trailer.
Beyond a shadow of a doubt I should have bought a cargo van when I bought the Suburban. ( still might trade it in if I find a good deal). I was only thinking new "tow vehicle" when I should have been considering the overall logistics of moving gear.
Cargo van will go all kinds of places that a trailer won't. Don't be like me, just buy a van.
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And as a bit of a topic swerve to add Japanese people carriers (mini-vans to those in the US) with strange names how about a Toyota Estima Lucida Charme Pleasure Wagon with Joyful Canopy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iajK7uuM6w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iajK7uuM6w).
As for mini-vans (from a UK perspective at least, and from non-driving experience (I don't drive but have been passenger/loader/un-loader of the Citroen Dispatch, Berlingo, Nemo and Ford Transit Connect)) the Citroen Dispatch (Jumpy) is relatively large, has sliding doors both size and is not hugely taller than their smaller cousin the Berlingo. If you want car sized but with real versatility then the car versions of the various mini-vans have the advantage of being able to carry 5 people (inc. driver) one minuet and a good load hauler the next.
Just the vehicle name gave me flashbacks to the pink and yellow pickup truck Beatrix Kiddo obtained from Buck... (Kill Bill reference)
My old-style 2013 Transit Connect is nearly ideal for what I do. Another foot of cargo would make it perfect. If I had to do it again, the Merc Metris would be my choice.
frank
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also- a 4x8 sheet of plywood will lay down in back.
"Sheet of plywood, laying flat, with doors closed" is a critical specification for me. The old GM "extended" minivans used to pass with flying colors and provide a certain "sophisticated" environment. The part I really miss from those were the automatic leveling rear suspensions.
I looked at the largest Nissan NV, but the cargo area was a couple of inches short of 8 feet, with the bench seat installed. Wound up with a Ford E350 passenger van, which has inches to spare behind the first bench. Added plus: I can park it in ANY church lot without raising suspicion ;D .
Dave
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"Sheet of plywood, laying flat, with doors closed" is a critical specification for me. The old GM "extended" minivans used to pass with flying colors and provide a certain "sophisticated" environment. The part I really miss from those were the automatic leveling rear suspensions.
I looked at the largest Nissan NV, but the cargo area was a couple of inches short of 8 feet, with the bench seat installed. Wound up with a Ford E350 passenger van, which has inches to spare behind the first bench. Added plus: I can park it in ANY church lot without raising suspicion ;D .
Dave
Do you mean like the Chevy Venture and Olds Silhouette? I think I mentioned those in the beginning of the thread. We eventually gave up on them as good examples are hard to find. When I first got started we literally worked the piss out of a Chevy Venture and it never let us down. The Olds was added later on, we put airshocks in it and ran it to the wheels fell off to. They did well for us.
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Do you mean like the Chevy Venture and Olds Silhouette? I think I mentioned those in the beginning of the thread. We eventually gave up on them as good examples are hard to find. When I first got started we literally worked the piss out of a Chevy Venture and it never let us down. The Olds was added later on, we put airshocks in it and ran it to the wheels fell off to. They did well for us.
The e-350 is a one ton full size van.
AKA Chev 3500, or GMC G-30
4X8 fits easily between the wheel wells.....
I had the Chevy.
Chris.
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Do you mean like the Chevy Venture and Olds Silhouette?
Yessir! Also the Pontiac Montana and Buick Terraza. I literally drove my Terraza into the ground (envision Rooster Cogburn's foaming horse) on my last trip across the Blue Ridge Mountains to North Carolina.
Dave
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I use a Chevy Express extended with a Duramax Diesel. I have been very happy with it. Sometimes I'm surprised at how much gear I fit in there. The only issue I have with it is the damn DEF system.
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Early last year I realized I really needed a cargo van, after a couple of years with an Odyssey w/tow hitch for the bigger gigs. I did my homework on the available options and landed on the Mercedes Metris - price is actually comparable to similarly spec'd vans from other manufacturers, it carries 3500lbs and can tow 5000 - so far I haven't had to tow anything, it LOVES being packed to the ceiling with gear!
I did a 4-day camping festival in June, packed all the gear plus our camping gear, with all of that it was able to easily maintain 70mph through the NorCal hills and got 22mpg on the way & 24mpg on the return (elevation change made the difference) running on cruise-control the whole way.
This Sunday I had two gigs, one 10 minutes from home so I hauled out & set that one up, made sure the engineer had everything he needed, and went home & loaded for my other gig.
It's a pleasure to drive, hauls all the gear I need, gets good gas mileage, and fits in a normal garage. Highly recommended.
I know a new one isn't in the budget stated in the OP, but used ones are out there & the drive train should be good for >300,000 miles with regular servicing.
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Yessir! Also the Pontiac Montana and Buick Terraza. I literally drove my Terraza into the ground (envision Rooster Cogburn's foaming horse) on my last trip across the Blue Ridge Mountains to North Carolina.
Dave
The Montana is my gig rig. Black with tinted windows, my wife calls it the "creeper van". I paid $700 for it 5 years ago, and have spent little on it for maintenance. It holds my SRX 815's over 818's, (4) DSR112's, (2) smaller speakers for 6 monitors total, all cases & cables, plus a 24 LED light show. Mine has the rear shocks that self-adjust. It drives the same empty or full.
I'm actually in the market for a real work van myself. I want to add more sub's, and the Montana is becoming a reliability issue. Additionally, I want protection from my gear in case of an accident.
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The e-350 is a one ton full size van.
AKA Chev 3500, or GMC G-30
4X8 fits easily between the wheel wells.....
I had the Chevy.
Chris.
The E-350 is our workhorse, I wish it was an extended on occasion. The Powerstroke has all the mods (thanks Jeff Bankston for steering me in right direction when we got it) It is good on fuel, easy to drive and the modded diesel is unstoppable.
We have an old 1985 Uhaul with the 7L diesel, lots of patches to the box. Every year we say we are going to sell it and get something more aesthetically pleasing. Then it does another season of great service and it's best feature, it's paid for! Surprisingly nobody ever says anything about it. A guard at the Westin dock gave us a ration of shit and told us we had to sweep the rust out of the bay before we left. She probably loses a few pounds a day!
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A guard at the Westin dock gave us a ration of shit and told us we had to sweep the rust out of the bay before we left. She probably loses a few pounds a day!
Oh yea. I grew up in the Cleveland area. I remember rust.