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Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums => LAB Lounge => Topic started by: Kyle van dyk on May 16, 2018, 04:03:24 PM
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Hi guys!
Seeking some advise please. I have two powered jbl eon 615s, one 18" passive bass bin and a synq 2k2 amp. I want to know how exactly I would connect everything up to my numark mixtrack pro 3 DJ controller.?
I was doing a bit of research, most websites I went on are saying I should get a D.I box to convert the unbalanced rca signal from the controller to a balanced signal to run to the JBL eons as the quality of sound won't be good running an unbalanced signal straight from the dj controller to the JBL eons, especially 10m cable or longer. But what I want to know is what is the best way to connect an external amp to run the passive sub and still run the powered eons.?
Is it possible to run the rca from the dj controller to the DI box. Then run the left balanced signal cable to one eon and the right signal cable to the other eon. Then from the eons run a cable from the THRU output of each speaker into a crossover > amp > passive bass bin.? Just an idea I have but not to sure if it's the best or safest way. Any advice will be appreciated.
Thanks, best regards! :D
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You'll need a crossover or system controller to separate the line level signals into highs and lows for the Eons and and the amp driving the sub. I'm not familiar with that amp. Some may have a low pass that allows for use with a sub. But I don't think the EONs have a high pass to keep the bass frequencies out of them.
This is all pretty budget stuff so I'm figuring that you don't have much money. I'd look around for a DBX Driverack PA2 (not the original PA model) or the Beheringer unit.
Having a DI box to convert the single ended RCA outputs of the DJ mixer to balanced XLR is a good idea. Especially if there's much more that 6' of cable between the two. A stereo Radial DI would be great. But will also cost some money. Beware of cheap DIs as the small budget transformers won't transfer bass as well. Which can be a liability in a DJ system.
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You might consider a small mixer, as some DJ mixers don't have a ton of output, which can translate into not much volume for the powered speakers. It would also remove the need for a DI. A&H and Soundcraft have decent small inexpensive mixers.
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The ART DTI is a great budget DI box for your purpose. I use them all the time for DJ consoles.
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You might consider a small mixer, as some DJ mixers don't have a ton of output, which can translate into not much volume for the powered speakers. It would also remove the need for a DI. A&H and Soundcraft have decent small inexpensive mixers.
This.
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Hi than
You'll need a crossover or system controller to separate the line level signals into highs and lows for the Eons and and the amp driving the sub. I'm not familiar with that amp. Some may have a low pass that allows for use with a sub. But I don't think the EONs have a high pass to keep the bass frequencies out of them.
This is all pretty budget stuff so I'm figuring that you don't have much money. I'd look around for a DBX Driverack PA2 (not the original PA model) or the Beheringer unit.
Having a DI box to convert the single ended RCA outputs of the DJ mixer to balanced XLR is a good idea. Especially if there's much more that 6' of cable between the two. A stereo Radial DI would be great. But will also cost some money. Beware of cheap DIs as the small budget transformers won't transfer bass as well. Which can be a liability in a DJ system.
Hi all thanks for the replies, I am on quite a tight budget and also would like the setup to be as simple as possible. I am definitely going to get a crossover. But if I do, would I connect it straight from my controller to the crossover...and then from the crossover to the eons and a separate sub output to the amp that will run the bass bin? So basically I wouldn't need a DI box because the crossover would be pushing out balanced signals already?
Thanks again for all the advice.
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Yes, that is correct.
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Hi than
Hi all thanks for the replies, I am on quite a tight budget and also would like the setup to be as simple as possible. I am definitely going to get a crossover. But if I do, would I connect it straight from my controller to the crossover...and then from the crossover to the eons and a separate sub output to the amp that will run the bass bin? So basically I wouldn't need a DI box because the crossover would be pushing out balanced signals already?
Thanks again for all the advice.
You don't have to spend a lot to get a usable crossover:
https://goo.gl/Rz1mWY
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DI box is not a best answer either because it is loading for a guitar or instrument. 50:1 so a 1:1 may be a better transformer for this application. Radial makes a PC DI that would have a better transformer for this application. Whirlwind and others.
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Hi Steve, yes I was looking at getting that exact crossover as it has stereo function and sub out and is fairly cheap. The only thing is that I looked at some pictures online and it only has one xlr male input which I don't understand if it was stereo surely there should be 2 inputs? Hi Jerome I was looking at this DI box not to sure it'll do the job?
https://synq-audio.com/sdi-1
Thanks, best regards
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Hi Steve, yes I was looking at getting that exact crossover as it has stereo function and sub out and is fairly cheap. The only thing is that I looked at some pictures online and it only has one xlr male input which I don't understand if it was stereo surely there should be 2 inputs?
It has one XLR female input per channel, so two inputs total - not sure where you're seeing one XLRM only?
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I just picked up this (passive) Radial Trim 2. It has stereo 1/4", RCA & 3.5mm inputs with an adjustable trim level. Stereo XLR outputs. Designed to connect laptops, IPads, DJ mixers, etc...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VKSUGXM/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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(http://)
It has one XLR female input per channel, so two inputs total - not sure where you're seeing one XLRM only?
Hi please see picture attached. I can only see one input point?
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Hi please see picture attached. I can only see one input point?
There are 2 input connectors shown in the pic you posted.
The top row of labels is for a mono config. The labels below the connectors are for a more normal stereo config.
I agree the labels are not very clear.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
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There are 2 input connectors shown in the pic you posted.
The top row of labels is for a mono config. The labels below the connectors are for a more normal stereo config.
I agree the labels are not very clear.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Okay I can sort of understand where I would connect the inputs, but yes the labels are a bit confusing at first. Thanks for clarifying this Rob.
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There are 2 input connectors shown in the pic you posted.
The top row of labels is for a mono config. The labels below the connectors are for a more normal stereo config.
I agree the labels are not very clear.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Yeah, perhaps they're trying to cover too many options with not a lot of silkscreening.
Poor labelling aside, I'm sure it'd've been cleared up with a simple RTFM on Kyle's part....
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Yeah, perhaps they're trying to cover too many options with not a lot of silkscreening.
Poor labelling aside, I'm sure it'd've been cleared up with a simple RTFM on Kyle's part....
Sorry David, I actually did take the time to read the manual before asking Rob for advise! The manual only shows one input point under the stereo and mono section which is why I was confused. So instead of just assuming where to plug the other input I thought let me rather double check.
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Sorry David, I actually did take the time to read the manual before asking Rob for advise! The manual only shows one input point under the stereo and mono section which is why I was confused. So instead of just assuming where to plug the other input I thought let me rather double check.
What is not said in the manual is whether the 2 low outputs when used as a stereo crossover have a high pass filter that matches the low pass filter on the sub out channel or whether they output all frequencies lower than the low/high low pass.
A little bit of internet research yields a believable answer:
from Behringer Community (https://forum.musictri.be/showthread.php?20921-Trying-to-understand-CX2310-subwoofer-crossover-frequency-and-signal-flow)
So I've now double checked on this and can confirm that what you've stated is indeed correct.
For 2-Way Stereo operation, each of the CX2310's input signals hits the LOW / HIGH XOVER knob which splits the signal into two bands (Highs and Lows) using the selected value to determine which frequencies pass to the HIGH output and which ones pass to the LOW output. Then the SUBW XOVER knob allows you to dial in which frequencies from the selected LOWS that you want to pass specifically to the subwoofer XLR output.
Again my apologies for the initial confusion. Hopefully this discussion helps others who might be confused similarly about the operation of this crossover.
Michael Lapke
Specialist, Community
MUSIC Tribe
BEHRINGER
So it makes an OK 2 way stereo crossover, but doesn't make a good stereo 2 way plus combined sub crossover because you will still be feeding all the deep bass to your mid-bass drivers.
Marc
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What is not said in the manual is whether the 2 low outputs when used as a stereo crossover have a high pass filter that matches the low pass filter on the sub out channel or whether they output all frequencies lower than the low/high low pass.
A little bit of internet research yields a believable answer:
from Behringer Community (https://forum.musictri.be/showthread.php?20921-Trying-to-understand-CX2310-subwoofer-crossover-frequency-and-signal-flow)
So it makes an OK 2 way stereo crossover, but doesn't make a good stereo 2 way plus combined sub crossover because you will still be feeding all the deep bass to your mid-bass drivers.
Marc
I read it differently.
While i agree that he did not explicitly say it but i expect the knob that adjusts what frequencies go to the sub is moving a crossover point between the subs and the lows for the tops.
Doing otherwise not only makes no sense but differs from all the other analog units of a similar nature.
I have an Ashley unit with the same functions though it is better labeled.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
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While i agree that he did not explicitly say it but i expect the knob that adjusts what frequencies go to the sub is moving a crossover point between the subs and the lows for the tops.
Doing otherwise not only makes no sense but differs from all the other analog units of a similar nature.
I have an Ashley unit with the same functions though it is better labeled.
I agree that this makes no sense, but when you build a 2.5 way stereo crossover for just over $100, sometimes shortcuts are taken. Elsewhere in the above referenced thread, someone says he measured one and that is how it behaves. It is cheaper to add one variable low pass after a summing circuit than it is to add a pair of high pass filters and a summer and a low pass filter, with all the frequencies coupled.
I don't have one, so I can't be certain by measuring, but that is what the consensus in that thread says.
Marc
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I agree that this makes no sense, but when you build a 2.5 way stereo crossover for just over $100, sometimes shortcuts are taken. Elsewhere in the above referenced thread, someone says he measured one and that is how it behaves. It is cheaper to add one variable low pass after a summing circuit than it is to add a pair of high pass filters and a summer and a low pass filter, with all the frequencies coupled.
I don't have one, so I can't be certain by measuring, but that is what the consensus in that thread says.
Marc
But it does work like that. its now collecting dust somewhere in an old rack.
I used to use the passive crossovers in the top boxes so I just used the high outputs of the behringer to drive those and either the Low or Sub output to drive the sub(s).
All EQ's we had had an 12dB/Oct. HPF at a freq low enough to be used for subwoofer "protection".