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Author Topic: ISP System listen in West Michigan  (Read 4183 times)

Phil LaDue

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Re: ISP System listen in West Michigan - a few things
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2007, 11:42:57 pm »

Nick Aghababian wrote on Fri, 14 December 2007 23:38

And yes the are very, very open to demos.

Open enough to have the nearest dealer throw a sub in a truck in 5 hours and head to the shootout in Maryland?
Very Happy

If they do, i'll be there in 5 1/2 hours.

Peter Etheredge

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Re: ISP System listen in West Michigan
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2007, 10:00:01 am »

Evan Kirkendall wrote on Fri, 14 December 2007 18:24

I got to mix on an ISP rig over the summer, and was not very impressed. I had 3 XMAX115's per side and 2 tripower tops per side. Crowd size was about 500, in a pretty good room. The system's dude was like "yeah man, this is way more rig then you'll ever need and you wont need to touch the EQ, it sounds great."

30 seconds into the first song, limiters are kicking in, clip lights are lighting up and she's sounding strained. Systems dude is totally freaking out, and Im only 101dBA @ FOH(75' away). I walked up to the subs, and they were basically bottoming out, and it was still pretty weak. The tops had a very weird sound to them too. It was very muffled sounding, I had to cut a lot of 630 and 300hz. Even gave a little boost from 1-2k. They just lacked that "in your face" sound that I like. I had a gb8 @ FOH and my usual mics(Beta's, Audix's, ect) and just wasnt very impressed.




Evan


With the exception of the limiters and clip lights (were these on the speakers in your case or outboard?) this precisely describes my opinion of the sound on these things.  I was mixing on the Tripowers (were the ones you mixed on the 900 also, as that is what I was using) as well, although I've also heard a Tri-Reference rig and had the same impression of it.  I think this had to do with a few things:  for one there was no sort of wave-guide on the midrange driver, it was just mounted on a board along with the LF and HF horn.  Also I think it has to do with the way that these things cooled their amps - they have a head sink recessed into the back of the cab and at the bottom of the heat sink the leave a gap into the LF enclosure and then put a board over both that gap and the bottom of the heat-sink in order to force air from the reflex hole up over the heat-sink.  This cooling method created a bass trap which was especially problematic in the room I used them in because they were flown up near the ceiling.


Just so everyone knows I'm not trying to start a riot here or anything because we don't need another Adamson thread  Rolling Eyes  I know that some people like Tony have really liked their ISP rigs and that's great that they have worked out so well for them.  I just personally share the same poor opinions of this gear along with people like Nathan and Evan.

Oh yeah, just so I'm not all talk, here are a few pictures of said rig!  (Sorry that a couple are blurry - I had a REALLY shitty camera at that time).  Oh also I don't have a picture of the heatsink/cooling system, which I thought I did.  Crap.


http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/4674/sunp0022ia8.jpg
I don't know if it's visible but there is a tiny knob over that top TRS jack which is all the gain control allowed on these things - again, no clip or signal lights.

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/3046/sunp0018xu8.jpg

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/9689/sunp0024pq5.jpg

And finally a picture of how the company (local ISP dealer/supposed system designer) installed them, unfortunately this is just a blurry crop of a picture from the youth loft in the gym that they were in, but it should give you a general idea of what I was talking about as far as worsening the bass trap.  There was one on either side of the basketball court.  We later tried moving them to the middle (where the replacement Yami Clubs are now flown and do a great job) but it didn't make a difference.
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/3927/speakerhangks3.png
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Peter Etheredge
Systems Engineer and Designer
Top-Notch Productions, INC.
petheredge(at)tnprod.com

Vic Cowles

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Re: ISP System listen in West Michigan
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2007, 11:51:20 am »

Have tried to sell a pair of Tri-wedges ( mirror image pair) on Ebay a couple of times.  My key player still has em for sale.
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I have to keep my day job to pay for this one.

Too Tall (Curtis H. List)

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Re: ISP System listen in West Michigan
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2007, 12:36:25 pm »

Hi Nick,
You brought back some old memories.

I used to mix a band called “My Dog Bob” in the late 80s at The Intersections for many weekends.
It has been two decades, but is Dave Deivers (Spelling?) still the night manger there? (Also a partner if my memory serves me right.)
After that many years the place should changed hands more then once.

My Dog Bob was the only cover band that played there on the weekends (Thursday through Saturday). That band owned the college crowd wherever it went.

I loved working there. I got to take some time off my day job and spend two or three days eating at some of the best places in town and catching up with the recent movies.
They put us up at the brand new Days Inn just across the river from downtown and across from the Gerald Ford Library (?)

Back then The Intersection was a “Shotgun” room over 120 feet deep, but only 20 to 30 feet wide.
I can’t recall the ceiling height, but I would guess about 10 feet.

The dance floor was beside the bandstand on the stage left side.

I had one stack on the stage right wall and another just behind FOH pointed toward the pool tables and bar on a 50 to 55ms delay.

I mixed on headphones.

IMO a delay stack is the only way to cover the room successfully, though the right Line array should help some with the ceiling height. But two 90-degree line arrays pointed down the depth of the room would do horrible things in the horizontal plane.

So tell me Nick, how has it changed?
Did they try and drive the sound down the length or do they use a delay stack?
Or has the room been completely changed?

Note: If you ask anyone about me use my given name Curtis List and even better “Tall sound guy for My Dog Bob”. No one outside of the band members had any idea who “Too Tall” was.
That time was pre Internet.

It will be interesting to see if anyone remembers us anymore.
If they do it could be an answer to “No one can hear how well (or poorly) you mix over the forum.”
Wink

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Too Tall
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Tony "T" Tissot

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Re: ISP System listen in West Michigan
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2007, 05:48:57 pm »

Peter Etheredge wrote on Sat, 15 December 2007 07:00

Oh yeah, just so I'm not all talk, here are a few pictures of said rig!  (Sorry that a couple are blurry - I had a REALLY shitty camera at that time).

I am not familiar with that single cabinet system you pictured. In any case I would not use those 3-way cabinets Evan mentioned (or the ones Peter pictured) for those gigs. Absolutely the wrong tool for the job.

(I think ISP uses the Tri-power designation in multiple products. )

Here is a picture of the system in 4-way mode with 90X40 2 way tops. A completely different beast.

For larger gigs I can add a 2X15 pack for 100 to 260 Hz, (identical in size to the dual 12 mid packs) and switch to 60X40 dual horn packs for the top.

Obviously - subs can be increased as well, which I don't usually need to do.

(This picture looks like it's in a park - but it's actually at the end of a narrow city street with 3 story buildings on both sides.)

(Excuse the red straps! They are now black Razz )

index.php/fa/13019/0/
(Shane Dwight - for anyone who listens to the Dan Akroyd House of Blues Radio Hour)
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MNGS
ProSoundWeb - Home of 50,000 audio professionals - and two or three curmudgeonly SOBs.

Nick Aghababian

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Re: ISP System listen in West Michigan
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2007, 03:03:39 pm »

Alright, I finally wrote a review and put it in the Product Review section. Sorry for the delay, holiday seasons suck.
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