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Author Topic: Maryland subwoofer shootout results!  (Read 44094 times)

Rob Spence

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Re: Maryland subwoofer shootout results!
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2007, 05:25:06 pm »

It seems to me that some folk are confusing crossover settings with  what are commonly called "DSP" settings which I take to mean using the parametric EQ to smooth out a cabinet response and also use some delay if needed to align the cabs.

Evan did say what crossover settings they used.
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Victor Kouli

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Re: Maryland subwoofer shootout results!
« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2007, 05:47:38 pm »

Evan Kirkendall wrote on Sun, 16 December 2007 11:47

Bob-
1. DSP settings were pretty simple: HPF @ 90hz, LPF @ 20hz.

Evan

=====================

You meant quite opposite (HPF @ 20Hz/LPF @ 90Hz), did you?
Smile

Victor
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Maryland subwoofer shootout results!
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2007, 06:05:10 pm »

I refer to DSP settings as everything from EQ to crossover filters to limiting to level to delay and more-as that is what you use a DSP for.

It is not a single function device and the power of a DSP is what allows you to get the most precise alignment of a loudspeaker system-if done correctly Very Happy .  If not you can really screw things up a lot more than with analog.

It is all in how you use the tool.
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Mike Christy

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Re: Maryland subwoofer shootout results!
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2007, 06:11:21 pm »

I wish I was in MD Saturday, I am really sorry not to meet everyone and enjoy the party. Hats off to everyone who put time in and lent their expertise to make it happen, especially the bakery  Laughing

With regard to Steve's comments,

I have used Growlers as singles recently, and I too find them adequate for some applications, especially corporate parties. I have yet to have anyone tell me to turn it up, no matter what the gig, even rock gigs with only 2 cabinets.

With that statement, the system is what it is, if the subs are the limiting factor in SPL with regard to overall spectral balance, then it is what it is. My job is to provide quality sound, not necessarily to blow everyone out of the room, although  I feel it is my job to translate the bands energy via the PA, and proper high levels of SPL are important for this.

But as center coupled I find a pair of Growlers work wonderfully, and I really regret setups where they have to be separated.

If the output of a specific pair of subs is not at the require SPL, then another set are are probably required. I think this is probably true no matter what the brand.

I'm a little confused by the kick comments at the listening party since there was no live kick drum/mic setup and it was all pre-recorded music played through the system. How can one differentiate between and tag one set of subs as "DJ" subs or live sound subs with only recored music as a reference?

Correct me if I am wrong, but front load reflex speakers will always have more "presence" associated with them with respect to horn loaded. With that said, I find it difficult to compare the two different animals, one is apples, one is oranges, neither are bad, both are good. And the kick will sound different through each.

The fact that the Growlers fill a nitch exceptionally well, are scalable, and run neck and neck with much high priced and better regarded subs - all without much DSP processing - really says a lot about Jeff's engineering efforts.

Great job in MD guys, Evan, Jim and others, I have enjoyed reading the comments. Sorry for the ramble, snowed-in days are boring...

Mike
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Scott Smith

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Re: Maryland subwoofer shootout results!
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2007, 06:18:32 pm »

What interest's me is what single sub outperformed the double 18 sub?  And if so, what was the trade-off?  Price?  Size?  At a truly comparable 4 ohm load, how do 2 Growlers compare to a double 18 cab?

The bigger boxes went lower, or got louder.  So how much SPL do the smaller boxes sacrifice for their size?

Were DB measurements taken at different frequencies for each cab?
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Phil Lewandowski

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Re: Maryland subwoofer shootout results!
« Reply #45 on: December 16, 2007, 07:00:41 pm »

Mike Christy wrote on Sun, 16 December 2007 18:11

I wish I was in MD Saturday, I am really sorry not to meet everyone and enjoy the party. Hats off to everyone who put time in and lent their expertise to make it happen, especially the bakery  Laughing

With regard to Steve's comments,

I have used Growlers as singles recently, and I too find them adequate for some applications, especially corporate parties. I have yet to have anyone tell me to turn it up, no matter what the gig, even rock gigs with only 2 cabinets.

With that statement, the system is what it is, if the subs are the limiting factor in SPL with regard to overall spectral balance, then it is what it is. My job is to provide quality sound, not necessarily to blow everyone out of the room, although  I feel it is my job to translate the bands energy via the PA, and proper high levels of SPL are important for this.

But as center coupled I find a pair of Growlers work wonderfully, and I really regret setups where they have to be separated.

If the output of a specific pair of subs is not at the require SPL, then another set are are probably required. I think this is probably true no matter what the brand.

I'm a little confused by the kick comments at the listening party since there was no live kick drum/mic setup and it was all pre-recorded music played through the system. How can one differentiate between and tag one set of subs as "DJ" subs or live sound subs with only recored music as a reference?

Correct me if I am wrong, but front load reflex speakers will always have more "presence" associated with them with respect to horn loaded. With that said, I find it difficult to compare the two different animals, one is apples, one is oranges, neither are bad, both are good. And the kick will sound different through each.

The fact that the Growlers fill a nitch exceptionally well, are scalable, and run neck and neck with much high priced and better regarded subs - all without much DSP processing - really says a lot about Jeff's engineering efforts.

Great job in MD guys, Evan, Jim and others, I have enjoyed reading the comments. Sorry for the ramble, snowed-in days are boring...

Mike



Mike,

I have to agree that the kick comments that I made and a couple other poeple made, couldn't be judged by the pre-recorded music.  I guess what you could say is that the Growlers didn't shine as much getting that kick through in a pre-recorded track. But as you say that will be very different than putting a live mic'ed kick though it!

Take Care!
Phil Lewandowski
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Jeff Knorr - Cobra Sound

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Re: Maryland subwoofer shootout results!
« Reply #46 on: December 16, 2007, 07:11:30 pm »

Hi Guys,

My take from the shootout is available here (including the SMARRT6 files available for download), http://www.cobrasound.com/MDSubwoofers

I will hopefully be adding the measured frequency responses of each sub soon.

One thing I would like to add here is that the listening tests were not performed at matched SPL or matched input power so that may or may not impact some listeners' results.  Also, I think many of the subs present would sound even better with further EQ and DSP tweaks.  We were basically testing and listening to the raw unmodified output.

Jeff
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Dan Kok

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Re: Maryland subwoofer shootout results!
« Reply #47 on: December 16, 2007, 07:55:51 pm »

Jeff Knorr - Cobra Sound wrote on Sun, 16 December 2007 18:11

Hi Guys,

My take from the shootout is available here (including the SMARRT6 files available for download), http://www.cobrasound.com/MDSubwoofers

[...]

Jeff


Interesting there's a TSW-718 in your picture.  At one time I _really_ wanted those, now not so much.  Was their fate similar to the Clair sub?

Thanks,

--
Dan
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Raj Sookraj

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Re: Maryland subwoofer shootout results!
« Reply #48 on: December 16, 2007, 08:02:27 pm »

How can we view those Smarrt files?
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Maryland subwoofer shootout results!
« Reply #49 on: December 16, 2007, 08:10:00 pm »

You have to use Smaart V6, I have not figured out a way to use V5, but have a question out there and waiting.

I just downloaded the 30 day trial of V6 and it works fine-to view the files anyway Laughing
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