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[Bradley Petroskey]

I am currently looking to outfit my house gig with moving heads.  I am considering the Mac 250 Krypton/Wash and the Elation Design Spot 250/Wash 250.  Has anyone used both fixture sets that they could compare the performance?  

If you have any other ideas for the room.....  At this time I have 16-PAR 56's for backlight, 4-PAR 64's for frontlight, 4 HES Trackspots, 1-Atomic 3000 Strobe, 6 Color Track III (Color Changers), controlled by a Hog PC.  Lets say the room averages 500 or so on the band nights.  I am thinking of having 4-6 spot fixtures and 4 wash on stage eventually.      

Brad Petroskey
Production Director
Nottinghams
Columbia, MD

[len woelfel]

They both have their good points.  You'll find the Mac is a little faster, a little quieter, a little brighter, and not as heavy.  At least that's my opinion.  I don't like that the DS rigs 90 degrees off what every other fixture in the world (handles parallel to the truss) does in order to get the yoke to hang parallel to the truss.  Because it can pan further, the handles actually hang perpendicular to the line of the truss.  It can be a little annoying.  The Krypton only has 1 gobo wheel, so no gobo morphing.  

If you go DS, you have one fixture that can do a sort of a wash.  But there's no color mixing.  So if you want both profiles and washes in your rig, they'll all look the same but you only have to buy one type of fixture.  With the Mac, if you want wash and a spot that's 2 different fixtures, but the Mac Wash is true CMY mixing and a true wash fixture.  I would definitely get all of one brand or the other to keep programming time down, keep colors consistent, etc.  Plus, parts will be easier to come buy, less fuses to stock, etc.  

[Chad Costanzo]

First there is a Wash fixture in the design Spot Series now.
http://www.elationlighting.com/product.asp?ProductIDNumber=1 366&cat=Moving%20Head

I have used both fixtures and both fixtures are great.   I personally ended up purchasing the Design Spot 250's for my rental inventory as the cost difference and that Elation is only about 2 hours away makes for getting part easy.
   I have had great luck and the one small problem then fixed right away.  I know I had some issues getting my martins I had before fixed and it took weeks.  
  As for what to buy they both are great fixtures.

[Felix Truong]

Having used both, and if money didn't mattered, go with the Martin.

Firstly, the Martin is brighter, it's 5000 output lumens.  The Design Spot measured roughly 3,800 lumens.  Even though they use the same lamp, the martin has a superior optical/reflector system.

Another is speed, the martin wins again.

The wash is almost pathetic in my opinion.  I refuse to use it because it looks like someone put wax paper in front of the lens.  Lights up the haze onstage like our cyc lights would.

And lastly.. LASTLY.. in the middle of our show, out of our four design spots, one of them suddenly started showing the "error" code on the onboard LCD.  It would do all sorts of erratic things.  The prizm effect would randomly come in and out for a half second.  In one of the scenes, all of the design spots spin in unison from stageright to stageleft.  The one troubled unit lagged behind by 20 or so degrees.  During intermission we scrambled, and after the show ended, we decided to use our old, but trusty technobeams for the remaining shows.

Currently that unit is going to be shipped to LA for elation to service.  It's only 6 months old and its seen less than 500 hours.  Oddly, I was able to compare a Technobeam and a Design Spot side by side.  The Technobeam is a good 30% brighter when both are are on their no gobo, no color position.  Not bad for a decade+ light.  The Technobeam is rated at 4,000 lumens.  Makes me wonder about the output on the Design Spots.

[len woelfel]

Chad Costanzo wrote on Tue, 27 November 2007 21:17

First there is a Wash fixture in the design Spot Series now.  http://www.elationlighting.com/product.asp?ProductIDNumber=1 366&cat=Moving%20Head

Thanks for the info.  Didn't know that.

[Dan Brown]

Felix Truong wrote on Wed, 28 November 2007 06:10

Firstly, the Martin is brighter, it's 5000 output lumens.  The Design Spot measured roughly 3,800 lumens.  Even though they use the same lamp, the martin has a superior optical/reflector system.

I do agree that the krypton's are fairly bright for their size.
However my calculations from lux to lumens from the Elation specs are just below 4600 lumens with the 14 degree lens installed.  I am guessing you got your info from the review of the DS250 but you are getting your info on the Martin fixtures from their specs.

just FYI

The newer Elation stuff coming out is many steps above what they used to have.  This is a very good time to check them out.

sincerely.
Dan Brown

[Felix Truong]

Well, I had a Design Spot and a Technobeam side by side, and the Technobeam which is spec'd at 4,000 lumens was noticeably brighter than the Design Spot.  The Technobeam is almost a decade old.

[Brandon G Romanowski]

It all started about 6 weeks before the show. One of our biggest clients was having their annual corporate meeting in a hotel ballroom. We sold them on the idea of moving lights as well as audio video etc. We made all the arangements with a very well known Martin Rep. The lights were going to be there only 3 days before the big show. "We can work with that sure." So its 6 pm 3 days before the show and we dont have any lights. Now we have to get them shipped to the site. Ok as long as they will be here tomorow morning everything is fine. Great its all set. They eventualy make it on the day of the show,and by they i mean 3 of 24 make it. We hang them in a hurry and one doesnt even work. About two weeks later the rest show up and two of those dont work either. Since then i have only heard of mac 250s melting and showing up broken.  So i would only go with Elation who (for half the price) sent us all 24 moving lights working and on time.

[Felix Truong]

I find that hard to believe.  Generally it could be the older mac 250s that aren't taken care of properly.

Martin is currently the world's largest moving light company, and the biggest bands, venues, and touring companies use them globally.  

Martin's are considered cream of the crop while Elation is a spinoff of American DJ, which is a budget DJ lighting company.

[len woelfel]

I can see a problem with one of 24, but 21 of 24 seems highly unlikely.  Obvious questions left unmentioned:

exactly what units were they (250, 250+, newer series Kryptentour) since Martin has made a 250 watt moving head for a long time?

were they a new purchase or were they a rental?

if they were a day late, when were they ordered?  did the seller/renter promise delivery on time?  did they ship on time and get lost in transit?

who delivered them?

what did the cases look like when they arrived?