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Author Topic: your thoughts on tuba 36's / bill fitz designs  (Read 13645 times)

Jeff Babcock

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Re: your thoughts on tuba 36's / bill fitz designs
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2007, 10:57:48 am »

For that style of music T36 should work great.  BTW, There is a considerable difference between MSRP and actual cost on Growlers, that's very impressive if you can get 2 T36 for the cost of 1 Growler.  Les must really like Josh.  That's an almost stupidly good deal.

Anyway, I'm not looking for some sort of debate, I built some Titans myself and they work fine with my B rig.  They have lots of output.  If Josh has already heard T36 and is happy with their sound, that's perfect, and did I already say A GREAT PRICE!

I guess a lot of my comments re T36 are moot since I have not heard that particular Tuba model.

Re the Titans, I think Wayne is being pretty modest in his comments here.  I don't think 2 Titans = 1 12Pi.... close maybe in some respects, but very different in low end extension and especially in distortion.  Also from my experience of Labs there is a noticeable difference in perceived "sound" vs Titans, regardless of measurements.  I do prefer the "sound" of a lab (and I presume 12Pi should only be an improvement on this).  I am by no means a fanboy of Wayne, Tom Danley, Bill Fitz, or others.  Each has found a good niche, and their designs in some respect are driven by their end user group.  

Take the weight and size of subs into consideration.... Bill Fitz's subs are typically significantly lighter than others... many BFM builders don't have a crew to haul heavy gear in.  But that comes with a penalty.  I really doubt that Wayne and Tom D are completely oblivious to the fact that their subs are typically much heavier and in some cases larger than Bill's.

I know I would not put my Titans on a truck and send them out on a national tour, they would likely get very beaten up and I wouldn't trust the 3015LF to survive so much abuse (I like the 3015LF, but even though I have never had one fail, I still have a hard time trusting it and am very careful with them).  That's fine though, it's usually ME running them, and so they don't get abused.

Anyway, again I have no issue here, these are all VERY good subs we are talking about.  I have no intention to discredit any of them, they all fit a niche and are in many cases considerably better than many commercial offerings.  I did not mean to open up a can of worms.

Josh, the T36 should work very well for you.

Jeff Babcock

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Re: your thoughts on tuba 36's / bill fitz designs
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2007, 11:21:22 am »

peter.golde wrote on Wed, 24 October 2007 22:54


lb for lb, volume for volume, drivers for drivers, the T36 can HANG in there with any of the above mentioned subs. The differences between them are small, they all have great performance. The difference in cost is debatable. Pay more money up front for a name, better return on investment if planning to sell, DIY start making money right away with little investment, use for firewood when done.
BTW, kick doesn't come from subs, with these monsters of clean low output (all subs mentioned), you better have some kicking midbass, single front load 15's don't cut it.


Peter, I don't doubt they can come close, but look at Bassmaxx Deuce as an example.  Does well on the SPL chart (see the recent sub shootout results vs T48) in terms of efficiency, Handles 2000 watts, 4000 Peak, 144db max output roughly.  Yes it takes a lot of extra power to get more output, but hey, 3015LF drivers are only 450W, 900 Peak.  Put 2 3015's in a cabinet and you still have less than half the power handling of a Deuce with no better overall efficiency.  The difference will not be huge, but certainly an extra 1100 watts will give more output.

peter.golde

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Re: your thoughts on tuba 36's / bill fitz designs
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2007, 12:03:25 pm »

Jeff Babcock wrote on Thu, 25 October 2007 11:21

peter.golde wrote on Wed, 24 October 2007 22:54


lb for lb, volume for volume, drivers for drivers, the T36 can HANG in there with any of the above mentioned subs. The differences between them are small, they all have great performance. The difference in cost is debatable. Pay more money up front for a name, better return on investment if planning to sell, DIY start making money right away with little investment, use for firewood when done.
BTW, kick doesn't come from subs, with these monsters of clean low output (all subs mentioned), you better have some kicking midbass, single front load 15's don't cut it.


Peter, I don't doubt they can come close, but look at Bassmaxx Deuce as an example.  Does well on the SPL chart (see the recent sub shootout results vs T48) in terms of efficiency, Handles 2000 watts, 4000 Peak, 144db max output roughly.  Yes it takes a lot of extra power to get more output, but hey, 3015LF drivers are only 450W, 900 Peak.  Put 2 3015's in a cabinet and you still have less than half the power handling of a Deuce with no better overall efficiency.  The difference will not be huge, but certainly an extra 1100 watts will give more output.



First, I would use 4015's over 3015's for the ability to take more abuse, power, and if you look at the spl charts of Wayne's shootout, there is virtually no difference in output between 800 watts and 1600 watts, waste of power in my opinion.
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Jeff Babcock

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Re: your thoughts on tuba 36's / bill fitz designs
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2007, 12:36:02 pm »

It does yield a couple extra db.  Whether that matters or not is subjective.  However looking at the 800W measurements, the Titan is beaten considerably at 40Hz by a lot more than could be made up by adding a 2nd cab, and again from roughly 70-90Hz.

Keep in mind again I own some Titans, I'm not trying to discredit them..... it just seems it competes more closely with the Growler than the Trip or 12Pi.

Hank Staples

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Re: your thoughts on tuba 36's / bill fitz designs
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2007, 12:03:27 am »

Josh,

I will chime in here.....I have used a set of Les's tubas and they are really good at what they do. I can't remember what they were loaded with...it's been a while!  Smile  And as far as the builder goes.....Les is a great guy too!  Very Happy  Now if I could just figure out why he hates to run my monitor board??? Rolling Eyes

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josh cohen

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Re: your thoughts on tuba 36's / bill fitz designs
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2008, 04:09:22 am »

Hank Staples wrote on Thu, 25 October 2007 23:03

Josh,

I will chime in here.....I have used a set of Les's tubas and they are really good at what they do. I can't remember what they were loaded with...it's been a while!  Smile  And as far as the builder goes.....Les is a great guy too!  Very Happy  Now if I could just figure out why he hates to run my monitor board??? Rolling Eyes





my 'backup tech + truck guy is a general contractor who is also a carpenter/cabinet maker and has all the necessary tools and sparetime. we're gonna start on 2 t36's when he gets back in town
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Josh Cohen
Sense Sound / Shift Industries
New Orleans, La
504.231.2030

peter.golde

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Re: your thoughts on tuba 36's / bill fitz designs
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2008, 09:47:22 am »

Just to throw another wrench in the works, keeping in spirit of the LAB, if you look at the charts for the dual 4012 driver Tuba30's, they have huge output vs the T36 and are physically smaller than the Tuba36. If size matters, I would go with the dual driver T30.
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Dave Rickard

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Re: your thoughts on tuba 36's / bill fitz designs
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2008, 02:29:13 am »

josh sense wrote on Thu, 24 April 2008 02:09

my 'backup tech + truck guy is a general contractor who is also a carpenter/cabinet maker and has all the necessary tools and sparetime. we're gonna start on 2 t36's when he gets back in town


My cabinet maker friend made me promise NOT to ask him to build a fourth T30.  Laughing
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Dave
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Mike {AB} Butler

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Re: your thoughts on tuba 36's / bill fitz designs
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2008, 04:29:06 pm »

Dave Rickard wrote on Sat, 26 April 2008 02:29

josh sense wrote on Thu, 24 April 2008 02:09

my 'backup tech + truck guy is a general contractor who is also a carpenter/cabinet maker and has all the necessary tools and sparetime. we're gonna start on 2 t36's when he gets back in town


My cabinet maker friend made me promise NOT to ask him to build a fourth T30.  Laughing

Laughing  Laughing
Dave,
I have had many cabinetmaker types who claim they can "build anything" that absolutely vow never to build another speaker - after they get through with a trap, horn, or some exotic variant. (I still think of the guy who built me 6 matching cabinets in a double trap configuration.. sides at 30 degrees, top and bottom at 15 degrees..  Twisted Evil )
It's not as fun to work on a project of that veracity.. without knowing what the end result will be like. When cutting out and assembling even the most brutal cabinet jobs, the thing that gets me though it all is the fact that when all is done, I will get to make some terrific racket.. Twisted Evil  Twisted Evil
Regards,
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josh cohen

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Re: your thoughts on tuba 36's / bill fitz designs
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2008, 12:11:22 am »

going with 4 tuba 36 probably 24 wide

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Josh Cohen
Sense Sound / Shift Industries
New Orleans, La
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