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Author Topic: Any serious Encore users here?  (Read 6537 times)

Karl P(eterson)

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Any serious Encore users here?
« on: September 16, 2007, 07:00:07 pm »

I am talking with some different contacts of mine at the moment about the Barco Encore system. We are considering purchasing a smallish (4 or 5 node) Encore system in the next year or so.

One issue that we are trying to work out is what to do with cameras. Once you get more than 4 or 5 cameras, mixing live cameras on the encore desk seems to be a bit tedious.

We considered using a vision mixer on the screens that do primarily IMAG and put Encore on the rest, but we have too many other uses for those displays besides IMAG to ignore the flexibility that the Encore brings.

So in light of that we have been considering running a vision mixer upstream of the encore system and sub mixing the cameras. This seems like an ideal setup but we are concerned about latency due to this being for a permenent setup in a smaller (1000 seat) room.

What I am wondering is if any of the people here use a setup like this, and if so just how bad is the latency.

Would using a house sync clock and syncing our vision mixer, cameras and encore all to a common sync help this?

..... Or are we just out of our minds and mixing between 4 and 6 cameras on the Encore is really no big deal.

Thanks for any insight you may have,

Karl P
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Ken Freeman

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Re: Any serious Encore users here?
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2007, 11:50:22 am »

I do it all the time....The trick is to minimize your A/D and scaling conversions as these burn up time in processing.  I have my camera system with a switcher through the Encore down to about a frame and half lag.  I often use an a dedicated 3 VP encore engine as the camera switcher when I am pressed for staff.  If you go in SDI, it works like a charm.  I suggest running down Chris or Erik at Barco for more details.

Ken
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Karl P(eterson)

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Re: Any serious Encore users here?
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2007, 03:17:26 pm »

Well I would be using native resolution to the projectors naturally.

Are there any tips or tricks you have done to keep your latency so nice and low?

The cameras (Sony D55's most likely) speak native SDI so would be SDI into the switcher, through it and SDI into the Encore. Not sure if it will be DVI or RGBHV into the projectors.

I would imagine I would be ok with as much as 2.5 or 3 frames front to back.

What type of camera switcher are you using?

I have looked at both Echolab's small mixer and the little Ross 100 SD. Some of the larger switches than this offer more features, but then they start to get too expensive to be worthwhile for such a limited usage.

How has it gone when you have used an Encore box as a video mixer? It would seem hard to do much (if any) fast switching/cutting

Thanks for your input.... If there is anyone else out there with experience here I would love to hear it.
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Karl P(eterson)

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Re: Any serious Encore users here? - Any Other Thoughts?
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2007, 12:19:36 am »

If any others (or you Ken... : ) have any other information I would be very appreciative...

Thanks

Karl P
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Ken Freeman

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Re: Any serious Encore users here? - Any Other Thoughts?
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2007, 09:31:38 pm »

This not exactly a mainstream product....PM me for more details

Ken
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Shane Gavin

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Re: Any serious Encore users here? - Any Other Thoughts?
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2007, 11:00:17 pm »

Have you considered a Vista Systems SpYder?

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Karl P(eterson)

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Re: Any serious Encore users here? - Any Other Thoughts?
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2007, 12:10:03 am »

Yeah, we don't do a lot of major edge blending so it isn't worth the cost. If only using single screens or a 2 or 3 screen blend I think the encore is relatively easy to use and reasonably affordable compared to the spyder. If it is a 3, 4, or more blend then the spyder really starts to shine and become more cost effective.

However, we have moved on and are now considering using a full fledged vision mixer like the Ross Vision http://www.rossvideo.com/vision/vision_overview.html and then just use some format converters to drive any of our "weird" outputs.

We don't know what the answer is yet. We don't have to make a decision for another 3 or 4 months. The encore is a fantastic product strong in the "all around goodness" category and I would recommend it heartily. The ross is a downright bad (in a good way....) video mixer and the spyder is a great mega-blending-madness machine.

All great tools for different uses Smile

I have recently sat down and played on an encore and a ross vision. While the encore is a lot more flexible than a proper vision mixer, there are some definite speed advantages to using a vision mixer and its premium price tag becomes fast justified when you look at the integration abilities into such oddities as machine-farm control, complex tally systems, video servers, and monitor walls.

I think the most important and frustrating thing to learn when you start looking at equipment of this caliber is that there is no right answer and no product that is hands down the right answer. Get educated and pick your poison .

Karl P
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Shane Gavin

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Re: Any serious Encore users here? - Any Other Thoughts?
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2007, 12:32:16 am »

At work we use a Ross Synergy in conjunction with a Spyder.  

We use the Ross to mix 7 cameras, an AVID DEKO, and multiple playback sources to the Spyder which manages our multiple aspect ratios and display sizes in addition to controlling our Grass Valley Turbos which we use for playback too.

The Encore is a good product and I am a fan of Folsum(Barco) equipment and I think it will be a good choice for your needs.
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Karl P(eterson)

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Re: Any serious Encore users here? - Any Other Thoughts?
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2007, 11:11:26 am »

What about the ross?

Any thoughts there ~_^

Karl P
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Shane Gavin

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Re: Any serious Encore users here? - Any Other Thoughts?
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2007, 12:21:38 pm »

I am not the Ross operator but it seems to do what we need without any problems.  

I have been told that you can find Ross switchers on many of the broadcast tv trucks.

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Ken Freeman

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Re: Any serious Encore users here? - Any Other Thoughts?
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2007, 10:48:45 pm »

Shane Gavin wrote on Thu, 15 November 2007 09:21


I have been told that you can find Ross switchers on many of the broadcast tv trucks.



Yeah....Sure...I think you find a lot more GVG's.....and a few Sony's...No Ross...

http://www.nmtv.com/facilities/fac_trucks.asp

http://guardian.nepinc.com/packages/index.php

http://www.fandfproductions.com/

http://www.allmobilevideo.com/mobil/production.htm

http://www.gamecreekvideo.com/specs.html

They might have given one away for the marketing value, but I can't seem to find it right now.

We are looking at a Sony MFS to mate with our Encore.

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/DisplayModel?m =0&p=13&sp=102&id=75118

Ken
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Ken Freeman

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Re: Any serious Encore users here? - Any Other Thoughts?
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2007, 10:50:18 pm »

Do you want a smoking deal on a Montage to go with the Spyder?

That's why we bought the Encore....

Ken
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Shane Gavin

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Re: Any serious Encore users here? - Any Other Thoughts?
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2007, 10:39:49 am »

Ken Freeman wrote on Thu, 15 November 2007 21:50

Do you want a smoking deal on a Montage to go with the Spyder?

That's why we bought the Encore....

Ken


No thanks, the Spyder does it all.  We deal with 4 different aspect ratios and multiple layers during our shows so that's why we have the Spyder.

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Karl P(eterson)

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Re: Any serious Encore users here? - Any Other Thoughts?
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2007, 11:25:41 am »

Ken - While Ross is certainly not the largest player in the world, they are a top player and have a great product at a fair price.

I like the sony switcher, probably better than the ThomasGV or Snell/Wilcox switchers.

I also realize you probably use a fair amount of sony gear already and hence have a reason to seriously look at the MFS but that said, after sitting down and using one some different mixers I _really_ like the new ross vision line of switchers. I would (humbly?) recommend you give them a serious look. http://www.rossvideo.com/

The new AuxKeys on remote panel feature and the way ross deals with cross conversion are two major wins for them in my book.

Karl P
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Ken Freeman

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Re: Any serious Encore users here? - Any Other Thoughts?
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2007, 10:56:59 pm »

Oh I know it...I am going eight layers deep now that I have catalyst plugged into the the background and DSK channels.  I have played with them all and Vista made the cut, except I do live shows for a living, not build presets.  Then we had to look at the wonderful service history for our Montage...

And best of luck now that big brother has moved
http://www.christiedigital.com/AMEN/Corporate/MediaCenter/PressRelease/ChristieAcquiresVistaSystems.htm" target="_blank"> in....http://www.christiedigital.com/AMEN/Corporate/MediaCen ter/PressRelease/ChristieAcquiresVistaSystems.htm

See you at NAB?

Ken
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