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[hiep nguyen]

hi alls,
...so i see many manufacturers has some sort of line array in their product even Carvin and Peavey has one. There are still 2 well known company that does not Yorkville and Community. Aren't they late in the game or the market isn't there? Community drop their T class because it's could not sell? I like the idea design of Martin Audio 2 on 1 pole over the sub or stand to cover 90,100 degree wide. JBL VRX is nice but I dislike the horn expose..hmmm. Opinion?

[Adam Whetham]

Hiep Nguyen wrote on Sat, 25 August 2007 09:35

hi alls, ...so i see many manufacturers has some sort of line array in their product even Carvin and Peavey has one. There are still 2 well known company that does not Yorkville and Community. Aren't they late in the game or the market isn't there? Community drop their T class because it's could not sell? I like the idea design of Martin Audio 2 on 1 pole over the sub or stand to cover 90,100 degree wide. JBL VRX is nice but I dislike the horn expose..hmmm. Opinion?

You could also say Turbosound is "Late" on the Buzzword that is a Line array.

Secondly, I don't see them being late on the game on anything. A line array isn't a "Solve all" solution to any event. Point source will still be around and it needs to be done well. Community came out with the Sonus Series of stuff... which their little 3 way boxes are amazing for the price.

Yorkville has their unity series that has Tom Danley's horn design I believe.

Nothing wrong with point source. Line array this day has just become a "Buzzword" almost. I would rather speakers be designed right, and not have everyone and their mother have a version of their "Line array" out there.

[Alex Marine]

carvin has a line array?

photos anyone?

[Evan Kirkendall]

Alex Marine wrote on Sat, 25 August 2007 11:58

carvin has a line array? photos anyone?

What you havent seen it!?

It's all the rave!

Completely based off the TRX design:



I hear it sucks just as bad as the trap version of the box!




Evan

[Tom Young]

A few thoughts on this............

Better to stay out of the game than succumb to shear greed and simply flip your existing point-source designs 90-degrees and call them a "line array". Most of the LABsters know of whom I speak.

Turbosound has defiantly stayed out of this market. Somewhere on the internet there is a short piece by someone from Turbosound who explains why they chose to not go down this road.

I have some respect for those who have not followed the pack in this regard and because they have not followed the pack in this regard. It's hard not to follow the pack because (if for no other reasons) line arrays equate to greater numbers of loudspeakers sold per client/system and are (in many cases) cheaper to manufacture and (primarily) because, other than the HF section, they are all direct radiating drivers (OK; some have wierd little perforated discs in front of the cones). Its just a dumb old box. Yes, rigging also requires good design work.

Aside from the engineering hurdles to overcome when designing a line array system, one must really make the commitment to also both support the users in the field and develope design/aiming software applications for folks to employ on their own.

In some ways line array systems are easier for the endusers to deploy. When they do it right. Design/aiming software applications do not exist for point source systems (although modeling software does, but that's another whole ball 'o wax that is of little, if any, value to touring or other temporary system end users) and therefore the end users of point source systems must rely on their own abilities and also deal with greater obstacles to rigging such systems to perform at their best. Line arrays are also easier because you only have to think in terms of one axis of coverage when designing your hang. That's an oversimplification, but is not altogther untrue.

This hasn't been exactly off topic, has it ?

[Phil LaDue]

Evan Kirkendall wrote on Sat, 25 August 2007 12:29

Alex Marine wrote on Sat, 25 August 2007 11:58 carvin has a line array? photos anyone? What you havent seen it!? It's all the rave! Completely based off the TRX design: I hear it sucks just as bad as the trap version of the box!

Very nice PhotShop Evan.

[Tim McCulloch]

Hi Hiep-

My personal opinion on Community:  they are a great company that builds product in a range of price points, with matching audio quality.  I started using their horns 30 years ago, they simply sounded better.

I don't see Community's lack of a 'line array' to be a deficit.  Bruce Howze is concentrating on things that make money, reliably, for his company.  That's smart business.

They do well with the install and commercial market (having very good products helps).  That market is driven by sound, *engineering* and cost.  Community's products do what is claimed and tend to be rugged and reliable (some insanely so).

In the MI market, things are driven by often unreliable "specs" and price.  Community still puts out real-world numbers for their products at this level.  

At the pro "system" level, they simply haven't figured out how to successfully impact the people that use and purchase entire systems.

Before the T-Class, there was the AirForce.  An interesting and good sounding design that was clean and loud.  Very Loud.  LOUD.  It was impressive... the "mid-throw" top box delivered out past 100m.  Almost zero power compression.  There was some interest from US touring companies, but Community never built a full, stadium-sized demo rig for them to play with.  Also, this was about the time the "line array" was coming into play.  It takes a huge amount of money to play at this level, and I suspect that somewhere in the process, management figured it was cheaper to write off the R&D than to gamble additional money on demo product and all that goes with it.  Also, at this level, an Artist Engineer has to want the rig, too, so there was this previously unknown (and non-purchasing) "client" in the stew that Community had never needed to market to before.  It's got to be a lot harder than selling weather-resistant speakers for installs...

Whether or not this happened with the T-Class, I have no idea as my "insider" doesn't work there anymore.

Have fun, good luck, and don't buy a line array if you don't NEED one.

Tim Mc

[hiep nguyen]

It's good to hear the "insider" thing regarding Community has fail to built a full size demo rig for the big guy. IYO Is it valid to say Community kind of drop out the ball on line array completely base on what you said "smart business"?

May be I should not use the word "mini line array" at the beginning. I only refer whatever "array" is it in the VRX box of 2 per size over sub scenario. If Yorkville and Community has built the system similar to this it's worth a look.

[Tim McCulloch]

IMO Community did not initially realize the difficulty and expense of marketing touring grade systems, cut their losses and refocused on making products they knew how to sell.  While having sonically and technically superior products gives you bragging rights, it doesn't guarantee sales.

For them to develop a product similar to the VRX932 will depend on what they can sell...

I agree, any such product from Community or Yorky would be worth a listen.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

[Lew Veldas]

Hiep Nguyen wrote on Sat, 25 August 2007 15:35

hi alls, ...so i see many manufacturers has some sort of line array in their product even Carvin and Peavey has one. There are still 2 well known company that does not Yorkville and Community. Aren't they late in the game or the market isn't there? Community drop their T class because it's could not sell? I like the idea design of Martin Audio 2 on 1 pole over the sub or stand to cover 90,100 degree wide. JBL VRX is nice but I dislike the horn expose..hmmm. Opinion?

Turbosound and Funktion-One are two other well known companies who have avoided following the herd.

These days, "Line Array" is a marketing term, with little to do with the original engineering concept of making a system that approximates to a Line Source.

Every man and his dog, and all the dogs' fleas, have jumped on the bandwagon and it is a brave manufacturer who doesn't succumb to the marketing pressures to make another "Me Too" product.

This is very similar to the situation in the 1980's when "One Box" systems were the marketing hype du jour.

I think the inevitable backlash is long overdue. Try reading some of Tony Andrews' articles on the subject.