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Author Topic: On "Power experts needed"  (Read 18449 times)

Dave Barto

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Re: DO NOT FEED THE TROLL
« Reply #130 on: August 07, 2007, 02:27:31 pm »

I am sorry for having to pipe in but this is the only time I will, I am sick of hearing this.  I haven't put Chris on ignore yet because I am still waiting to hear a good explination of why he is quailifyed.  I am not a qualifyed electrician, nor will I ever be.  I admit this.  But I do know the reasoning behind why this adaptor will and will not work.  I have also been shocked with 220 and it really hurt, and I am lucky nothing worse happened.  After that, I have always hired someone who is qualifyed and can show me proof of it to do my electrical work.

chris haywood wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 13:12

The level of safety is directly proportional to the level of knowledge obtained for the particular task at hand... (typically 'professionals' already know this)



chris haywood wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 13:12


Am I really having to explain such fundamental principals to highly educated professional individuals?



No, you don't have to explain this to us.  But as of 2 minutes ago there was 16114 registered users.  Quite a few (I am guessing the majority) don't have much experience with power.  So if one of them happens to read your post and then kills himself with an illegally made adaptor, whose fault is it?

Just my 2 cents.

index.php/fa/10630/0/
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Dave Barto
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James Lawford

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Re: DO NOT FEED THE TROLL
« Reply #131 on: August 07, 2007, 03:01:03 pm »

[/quote]

The level of safety is directly proportional to the level of knowledge obtained for the particular task at hand... (typically 'professionals' already know this)

Now for an elementary example boys and girls....

It is safe for my wife to drive the car....
but it is NOT SAFE for my son to drive the car...
get the picture?
your knowledge dictates the level of safety, AND THAT INCLUDES THE SAFETY OF THE PEOPLE AROUND YOU...

[/quote]

So would you say that you never speed in your car? You have obtained the knowledge (hopefully) that speeding can be dangerous and illegal. This doesn't stop many people doing so and killing many people a day worldwide.

Knowledge not applied means nothing. Now I know about as much about electricity as I can write on my hand, that's why I gave up Physics after GCSE. If I want to do anything with electricity I go to a proper wireman and get them to do it. I also know nothing about American electrical code or your funny connectors but respect all that others have said regarding your particular solution to this problem. I suggest you listen to them too!

Best regards,

James Lawford

(How on earth do I quote on this forum?!)
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Chris Davis

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Re: DO NOT FEED THE TROLL
« Reply #132 on: August 07, 2007, 03:06:54 pm »

Brad Weber wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 11:38

I'd love to let it go Mac, but electrical systems are serious business and treating them in anything less than a serious manner, much less giving unqualified advice, is dangerous.  Does anybody know if Chris is a registered Electrical PE or licensed Electrician and where he lives?  Some complaints for practicing without a license and representing one's self as a qualified expert in electrical systems or copies of his posts to the relevant authorities certainly might put a stop to such nonsense.  Not trying to be a jerk, but unfortunately some people apparently have to learn the hard way.




Let's say the worst happens and somebody gets injured or killed as a result of this thread.  The authorities would first pursue the poster's ISP logging info from PSW.  
The authorities would then aggressively pursue the poster's ISP.  Either a court order or lawsuit directed toward the ISP (depending on circumtance) would guarantee an expedient response.  The ISP would want nothing to do with the poster or his problems, and he would soon be turned in and taken into custody.  Happens every day.
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Nathan Vanderslice

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Re: DO NOT FEED THE TROLL
« Reply #133 on: August 07, 2007, 03:23:13 pm »

Hey Chris, maybe YOU need to go back to elementary school and start over from there. I don't mean any disrepect, but it's clear that you are NOT getting it!!!!!!!! Even from a novice. it's clear that you don't know what you are talking about. At the expense of repeating what I and many of the others have said, in theory what you propose can work, but I doubt that any licensed electrician would sign off on that jury rigging as it is not legal, is not safe, is against NEC, and if something went wrong they could loose their license, and be held legally and financially responsible for any damages incurred. If you want to do stuff like that in your house, and you live alone, that's your business. If you have family or others living in the same house, or you live in an apartment complex or co-op it's the business of everyone there. You can play russian roulette with your own safety and property, but not others. Again what you propose is ridiculous and dangerous for those who don't know better, and may try to solve a problem in a pinch this way. I have done a very little bit of electrical work, but I make sure that what I do is to code or well beyond. I did a project years ago setting up a temporary rig for stand lights in an orchestra pit. It was over kill, but I used 12 gauge wire for each of the two main feeds as well as the branch circuits, even when there would have been less than 100 watts on the line. Because I was making use of old 2 conductor stage cable (from the old system) I ran an additional ground wire to each of the duplex boxes and the outlets as well. This would not have been "kosher" for a permanent installation, but was acceptable for a temporary set up that was used once a year for up to a month and then disassembled and stored.

If you want to gain any respect at all at this point, get over yourself and admit that you are wrong. If you are a knowledgeable electrician, you know that what you have suggested is unethical and dangerous.
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Tim Brackett

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Re: DO NOT FEED THE TROLL
« Reply #134 on: August 07, 2007, 03:36:28 pm »

How safe is it for your wife to drive the car when someone has told the guy around the corner that it is OK to run stop signs as long he is fully educated on the risks involved in doing so?

I get your point that your adapter can be used without incident under tightly controlled circumstances....but there circumstances that all the knowledge in the world is not going to prevent.  There is no way you can insure that one of the neutrals does not become open, especially when you are talking about the typical household edison socket.  When it does there is nothing to prevent over current on the remaining neutral, nor will there be any signs of a problem until there is smoke.  

You, Mr. Haywood are hereby proven wrong on the grounds that no amount of knowledge or understanding of electrical wiring or theory can insure 100% reliability of both neutral circuits.  
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Vince Byrne

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Re: DO NOT FEED THE TROLL
« Reply #135 on: August 07, 2007, 03:46:17 pm »

James Lawford wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 14:01


So would you say that you never speed in your car? You have obtained the knowledge (hopefully) that speeding can be dangerous and illegal. This doesn't stop many people doing so and killing many people a day worldwide.


He isn't saying "Just about everyone goes 10mph over on the freeway". More like "Take that turn at 80! I do it all the time!"

And at this point he's just seeing how much noise he can make.
"I learned long ago never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it." ~Cyrus Ching

Quote:

(How on earth do I quote on this forum?!)

The command format is |the_command] at the beginning and [/the_command] at the end. You had an extra slash in the openning quote tag. (Replace "|" with open bracket. This is hard to show within a message.)

Peace
Vince
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Tom Bourke

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Re: On "Power experts needed"
« Reply #136 on: August 07, 2007, 04:13:04 pm »

I have QUIT several good paying gigs because of stuff like this.  My only regret is that I did not turn them in.  At the time I was late teens early 20s, AND I KNEW BETTER THEN!

The simple truth is even if you know enough not to unplug one end some one else may not.  This could include staff, children, unknowing person looking to charge there camera, what ever.  You are only one person and are not able to watch your adapter all the time.

Then there is the math involved.  Current will follow all paths back to the source.  The proportion of current flow in each path is determined by the inverse ratio of resistance.  It does not matter if it is .5  vs 1 ohm or 5 ohm vs 10 ohm,  the current flowing in the lower resistant path will be higher.  Now lets say there is a corroded or loose connection in the neutral some place.  With every outlet or junction box in line the probability goes up.  it does not take much to make lots of heat. Once that joint gets hot enough to open or just increase resistance a bit more the other neutral in your adapter gets hit even harder.  Another potential failure point is the wall outlet it self.  The contacts may be worn out, the plug cracked behind the face, or damaged in some other way. I keep this on my desk as a reminder and I hand it around when teaching kids about the dangers of electricity.
index.php/fa/10635/0/

BTW if I ever see one of those plugs in use I would not hesitate to start dialing up inspectors and police.
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Evan Kirkendall

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Re: On "Power experts needed"
« Reply #137 on: August 07, 2007, 04:31:34 pm »

Ladies and gentlemen...
STOP FEEDING THIS THREAD!!!!


Mac is not playing idiot police on this one. Lets grow up, move on and stop it ourselves. We've got a hard headed, ego filled high schooler trying to sound like an expert. Move on, leave this thread to fall to the bottom of the page and never return!




Rolling Eyes
Evan
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Scott Smith

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Re: On "Power experts needed"
« Reply #138 on: August 07, 2007, 04:34:57 pm »

Evan Kirkendall wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 16:31


STOP FEEDING THIS THREAD!!!!


AMEN!  Chris is a child in NEED of attention!  Let him get it at his daycare center...  NOT HERE!
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chris haywood

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Re: DO NOT FEED THE TROLL
« Reply #139 on: August 07, 2007, 04:45:16 pm »

Dave Barto wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 13:27

I am sorry for having to pipe in but this is the only time I will, I am sick of hearing this.  I haven't put Chris on ignore yet because I am still waiting to hear a good explination of why he is quailifyed.  I am not a qualifyed electrician, nor will I ever be.  I admit this.  But I do know the reasoning behind why this adaptor will and will not work.  I have also been shocked with 220 and it really hurt, and I am lucky nothing worse happened.  After that, I have always hired someone who is qualifyed and can show me proof of it to do my electrical work.

chris haywood wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 13:12

The level of safety is directly proportional to the level of knowledge obtained for the particular task at hand... (typically 'professionals' already know this)



chris haywood wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 13:12


Am I really having to explain such fundamental principals to highly educated professional individuals?



No, you don't have to explain this to us.  But as of 2 minutes ago there was 16114 registered users.  Quite a few (I am guessing the majority) don't have much experience with power.  So if one of them happens to read your post and then kills himself with an illegally made adaptor, whose fault is it?

Just my 2 cents.

index.php/fa/10630/0/




If Ruger makes a gun, and it is used to kill someone, who's fault is it?
The gun manufacturer?

same principal applies here, hello? Rolling Eyes


I recommend following logic and reasoning in responses, rather than jumping in to the polluted pool of emotional distraction...

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