ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Down

Author Topic: attenuators for tube amps  (Read 3163 times)

Bob Leonard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4669
Re: attenuators for tube amps
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2007, 05:26:42 pm »

Marsellus Fariss wrote on Sun, 05 August 2007 14:55

Bob Leonard wrote on Sat, 04 August 2007 15:27

The Marshall Power Brake is junk and the Weber is not to far behind it. The best attenuators made are from THD, or the Gibson branded THD Power Stealth. Your choice, they cost the same, but are light years ahead of anything else on the market and do the job perfectly.

http://www.thdelectronics.com/products/hotplate.htm

   http://www.gibson.com/Products/Amplifiers/Gibson%20Amplifier s/Power%20Stealth/





I completely disagree with you. I've had the THD Hotplate and I have the Webber Mini Mass and they sound pretty much the same. There's some slight variations but it's not night and day. I don't see spending over twice as much on the THD. Both will change your tone somewhat especially if you attenuate a great amount. The left hand side of the dial is pretty much uselsess from 12:00 counterclockwise to off. It adds a buzzing fizzy sound depending on what amp your using. I find attenuators to be very amp specific.






I've never had an issue with any of my Mesa Lonestars, Rect-O-Verbs, Nomads or Fender Super or Twin Reverbs. The tone stays unchanged or I wouldn't use it, period. Sounds more to me like you had a defective or abused unit.

Andy,
I agree with a lower powered amp but the new Fender shit sucks. ALL of it except maybe the Vibroverb, Vibro King or custom shop twin.
Logged
The roar of the grease paint, the smell of the crowd.

David Buckley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 582
Re: attenuators for tube amps
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2007, 07:08:08 pm »

Since the OP uses a Marshall 100 top, I suppose I should note that Marshall have re-issued their old 20W amps, see a review here

I had one of the original heads, which I used with a standard 4x12 cab (model 1961, which I still have), and it was probably the best rock setup I ever had.  Many years on, I seriously regret selling that little baby.

These new amps are a shameful price though.  The original amps were made for mail order catalog shops, and didn't cost much money at all, they were intended for bedroom guitarists.

Logged

Minka Matikainen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 178
Re: attenuators for tube amps
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2007, 04:52:55 am »

I agree with Andy that there is no good solution for this in electrical world, but...
...I've found those THD HotPlates to be decent for this kind of a work.

Better yet, you can actually change the seating for those tubes so that you can use smaller ones -> less power, still having the tubes driven to get that "sound".

Our guitarist did that and it has worked nicely for him.

The best solution would still be to find either a smaller amp which would be correct in terms of given SPL, or relocate the amp of the stage (although this would make you to be needing IEM's...)

My 2 cents

-Minka-
Logged
Digital vs. Analog, why bother...
When you're doing live sound, you want a living sound, so my preference is analog... ...Although my mind is changing slowly...

Steve Hurt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1964
Re: attenuators for tube amps
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2007, 08:40:49 am »

THD makes a good attenuator.

Suggesting replacing a Marshall head with a Fender combo is like telling a Strat player to use a Les Paul, just not well thought out advice.  The Fender and the Marshall do not do the same tones.

A smaller marshall might work out if it;'s good one and not one of the solid state buzz boxes.

As far as all current Fender products sucking, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.  I don't like the dirt channels on most of them but the clean channels are very usable on some of them.
Logged

Bob Leonard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4669
Re: attenuators for tube amps
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2007, 10:29:23 am »

Steve Hurt wrote on Mon, 06 August 2007 08:40

THD makes a good attenuator.

Suggesting replacing a Marshall head with a Fender combo is like telling a Strat player to use a Les Paul, just not well thought out advice.  The Fender and the Marshall do not do the same tones.

A smaller marshall might work out if it;'s good one and not one of the solid state buzz boxes.

As far as all current Fender products sucking, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.  I don't like the dirt channels on most of them but the clean channels are very usable on some of them.


Steve,
There's no denying the truth in your statements. The re-issue Marshalls are expensive for what you get, although the sound is vintage. 22 watts is about as small as a club amp can be and still be usable outside the studio. What seems to work out best are 40 and 50 watt TUBE combos or channel switching amps like the Mesa Nomads or Lonestars and smaller Marshalls or Bad Cats.

A good little amp for blues has always and will always be a Fender Deluxe reverb. The supposedly reissue has a good, not great, sound that is more than usable in most small to medium sized clubs and it's only 22 watts and cost $900. Pretty cheap.

The Fender clean sound from their current production line of amps is OK at best, but usable, and as you noted, they still don't make a decent channel switching amp.

On the Marshall side there isn't much that can recreate the sound of four 15 watt green back Celestions. But that doesn't mean the amp needs to be run with the power tubes saturated at 100 watts full output. That would be where THD comes in. Or, a good vintage TS-808 and a Ross compressor, or a Klon Centaur, will achieve the same effect at much lower volume.  Smile
Logged
The roar of the grease paint, the smell of the crowd.

David Buckley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 582
Re: attenuators for tube amps
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2007, 06:02:33 pm »

Bob Leonard wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 02:29

But that doesn't mean the amp needs to be run with the power tubes saturated at 100 watts full output.


Yes, it does.  There are 'master volume' amps that buzz at lower volumes, but there is little substitute for the full clip of a valve amp.

Doesn't mean the speakers need to be in the same acoustic space as the band though; put them offstage (dressing room, beer celler) anywhere, and mic it up and bring it back through the mons.

Or, you could do what I've done, which is admit that modern modeling boxes can get close enough to the classic tones to be usable (which means giving up 'perfection of tone'), and so much more convenient. This approach requires a mindset change on the part of the player though...

Logged

Steve Hurt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1964
Re: attenuators for tube amps
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2007, 06:20:12 pm »

The Marshalls without the master volume sound better than the ones with it IMO.  One trick pony, but it's a heck of a trick!

fwiw, I believe that amp will work with 2 of the 4 power tubes pulled.  (pull either the middle 2 or the outside 2)

Check with you local amp doc for confirmation.

That would get you down to 50 watts so it would be a start.
Logged

Bob Leonard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4669
Re: attenuators for tube amps
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2007, 08:30:49 am »

David Buckley wrote on Mon, 06 August 2007 18:02

Bob Leonard wrote on Tue, 07 August 2007 02:29

But that doesn't mean the amp needs to be run with the power tubes saturated at 100 watts full output.


Yes, it does.  There are 'master volume' amps that buzz at lower volumes, but there is little substitute for the full clip of a valve amp.

Doesn't mean the speakers need to be in the same acoustic space as the band though; put them offstage (dressing room, beer celler) anywhere, and mic it up and bring it back through the mons.

Or, you could do what I've done, which is admit that modern modeling boxes can get close enough to the classic tones to be usable (which means giving up 'perfection of tone'), and so much more convenient. This approach requires a mindset change on the part of the player though...




Have you ever actually heard a full stack running at 100 watts output? Rolling Eyes
Logged
The roar of the grease paint, the smell of the crowd.

David Buckley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 582
Re: attenuators for tube amps
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2007, 07:23:24 pm »

Bob Leonard wrote on Wed, 08 August 2007 00:30

Have you ever actually heard a full stack running at 100 watts output? Rolling Eyes


I used to stand in front of a pair of them Very Happy  But hey, that was the punk era...

That was before I got a brain (and changed bands), and dropped to a single Marshall 100W (long gone), then a single 50W (which is also long gone) with one 4x12 (the one I still have).  Then I dropped to the 20W head.  We had a PA then Smile

Then I went all solid state, to a HH performer, which gave the sounds I wanted at more usable volumes.  It was also twin channel, so dirty / clean at the same level, which was never a real possibility for a classic Marshall.

These days I'm a lounge guitarist, so I have a Boss GX700, a stereo power amp, and the (modified) 4x12 in stereo.  We live in a detached house a fair way from neighbors, so from time to time mates come round and fancy making a noise, so the remaining valve amp I have (Carlsbro 60TC) comes out and I put the ear defenders on.

I must be getting old.  

My one wish would be that I could transport the GX700 back to my golden playing days, as it does everything just so much better than the copycats, memory men, colorsound pedals, the Schaller leslie simulator (not to mention the Farfisa rotary cab I used for a while) and the like of it.  Modern guitarists don't seem to appreciate just how much more choice they have then the guitarists of decades ago.

Edited to say:  And yes, Steve's right, you can yank two tubes from a 100W amp to make it a bit quieter.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.042 seconds with 20 queries.