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[Mark Hobbs]

JTR recommends 1000 watts, but I have read that 1500-2000 is what it takes to get out of them what they have to offer. So , I would be interested to know what people power them with and how they perform with that amount of power.

[Vic Cowles]

I am using one side of a QSC PLX 3402 per box.  This gives them 775 watts at 8 ohms. I've measured 120 db steady with two boxes at 10 feet without clip. Will run 2 or 4 per side.  Have been able to run the system up to 110 db at FOH steady with some left.  My amps love me for it.

[Mark Coward]

Mark Hobbs wrote on Tue, 31 July 2007 19:28

JTR recommends 1000 watts, but I have read that 1500-2000 is what it takes to get out of them what they have to offer. So , I would be interested to know what people power them with and how they perform with that amount of power.

Where have you read this? I doubt very much that 2,000 watts is going to make an appreciable difference in output vs. 1,000 watts. Most likely the driver will be limited by power compression and xmax well before it reaches 1,000 watts. You'd get much more output by doubling the boxes instead of the amp power.

[Jeff Permanian]

It takes 1600 watts to push the growler to x-max however clipping will push the driver farther than normal which is why 1000 watts recommended.

[Mark Hobbs]

Jeff Permanian wrote on Fri, 03 August 2007 13:12

It takes 1600 watts to push the growler to x-max however clipping will push the driver farther than normal which is why 1000 watts recommended.

I don't follow what you are saying 100%.

If clipping will push the driver farther than 1600 watts will, why is 1000 watts recommended? Are you saying that 1000 watts is less likely to clip than 1600 watts? It seems to me that the bigger amp with more hearoom will be less likely to clip than the smaller amp.

[Mark Hobbs]

Mark Coward wrote on Thu, 02 August 2007 11:33

Mark Hobbs wrote on Tue, 31 July 2007 19:28 JTR recommends 1000 watts, but I have read that 1500-2000 is what it takes to get out of them what they have to offer. So , I would be interested to know what people power them with and how they perform with that amount of power. Where have you read this?

I read it on this site somewhere.

[Jeff Permanian]

Mark Hobbs wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 17:14

Jeff Permanian wrote on Fri, 03 August 2007 13:12 It takes 1600 watts to push the growler to x-max however clipping will push the driver farther than normal which is why 1000 watts recommended. I don't follow what you are saying 100%. If clipping will push the driver farther than 1600 watts will, why is 1000 watts recommended? Are you saying that 1000 watts is less likely to clip than 1600 watts? It seems to me that the bigger amp with more hearoom will be less likely to clip than the smaller amp.

The recommended 1000 watts will ensure a long happy relationship between growlers and their owners. Playing the odds of running a system 1.5db from failure will only decrease reliability and client lists.

[Ivan Beaver]

It is not just the wattage, but the freq applied that will reach the mechanical limits of the loudspeaker.  A different freq with more level may not do any mechanical damage to the driver.

Of course if you try and run low freq into it at a lower level you can also cause mechanical damage due to fact that at the freq applied the horn no onger has control over the driver.  High Pass filters are ESSENTIAL!

Again, as in all cases, it is not an easy answer.  It is freq along with level that can cause mechanical damage and level combined with time that can cause thermal damage and of course any combination of the above

I agree with Jeff, if you are flirting that close to the limits, THINGS will happen-no matter what the "Spec" says.

[Mark Hobbs]

I am a believer in the "better safe than sorry" rule, but I still don't understand Jeff's statement about clipping being able to push the sub further than normal and thus 1000 watts is better than more than 1000 watts.

"It takes 1600 watts to push the growler to x-max however clipping will push the driver farther than normal which is why 1000 watts recommended."

[Ivan Beaver]

Because if you use 1000watts, then a little bit of clipping might be acceptable-which in most cases can happen easily on peaks, but if runnng 1600 watts and you clip, the extra excursion can be damaging.

[Mark Hobbs]

Ivan Beaver wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 19:38

Because if you use 1000watts, then a little bit of clipping might be acceptable-which in most cases can happen easily on peaks, but if runnng 1600 watts and you clip, the extra excursion can be damaging.

If the growler clips a little bit at 1000 watts during peaks, then at 1600 watts it would clip even less due to the headroom....right? Not trying to argue, just trying understand.

[Ivan Beaver]

Not the loudspeaker that clips but the amplifier that is driving it that we are talking about.

Yes using a amp rated for 1600 watts non clipped would be better than running a 1000Watt amp clipping a little.

But most people runt things right up to and past the limit, that is why Jeff said what he did-I assume.

1600 watts is only a hair bit more than 1000watts-a small hair.

[Mark Hobbs]

Ivan Beaver wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 20:17

Not the loudspeaker that clips but the amplifier that is driving it that we are talking about.

I understand that. I should have worded that a bit better.

Ivan Beaver wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 20:17

But most people runt things right up to and past the limit, that is why Jeff said what he did-I assume.

That, and maybe for marketing purposes. Rating it at 1000 watts makes it appear more efficient and thus a smaller amp can be used to run the growler.

[Ivan Beaver]

We actually had a well known consultant (in some circles)complain about the rating of the TH115, 1000watt @ 8 ohms.  He was saying that it would be a problem getting an amp that had enough headroom.  He wished it was rated lower so he could use a smaller amp

Just because it can take a particular amount of power does not mean you have to use that large of an amp.  You can always underpower a loudspeaker, you just won't get the maximum performance out of it.

[John Roberts {JR}]

Mark Hobbs wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 17:14

I don't follow what you are saying 100%. If clipping will push the driver farther than 1600 watts will, why is 1000 watts recommended? Are you saying that 1000 watts is less likely to clip than 1600 watts? It seems to me that the bigger amp with more hearoom will be less likely to clip than the smaller amp.

I'm not sure if this is the missing piece of information but an amplifier clipped to a square wave will put out 2x power. So a 1000W amp is capable of more than 1600W when square waved....  

Now I'm sure nobody ever does that to subs...  

JR

[Jeff Permanian]

John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 22:17

I'm not sure if this is the missing piece of information but an amplifier clipped to a square wave will put out 2x power. So a 1000W amp is capable of more than 1600W when square waved....   JR

You are correct sir,

A 1000watt amplifier producing a square wave doubles the RMS power to the growlers rated thermal capacity of 2000 watts however still within the 32mm each way mechanical limits.

John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Sun, 12 August 2007 22:17

Now I'm sure nobody ever does that to subs...   JR

Nope. No one. We used DJ's to beta test these. LOL

[Matt Jordan]

I have two configs over here in Boise. (1)A block of 6 Growlers run with 6 ea crown macro-tech 2402's bridged. Amps just idling along. Lots of spl. Config 2: A block of six growlers, Two growlers paralleled to one side of a Crown 2402. (using 1 1/2 Crowns). Crowns are working pretty hard. The amps are not very happy at the 4 ohm bridged mono with these growlers. They told me so.....

[Travis Valois]

How well would a bridged Crown XTI 1000 per cabinet work on these?

[William Bonsu]

Honestly,

 I wouldnt do it! Save some money and get an amp you can run the same power in stereo. I had the xti-4000 and now have the QSC PL6.0II....couldn't be happier. the xti-4000 just wasnt doing it for me bridged. the amp would clip prematurely and get maxed out easily. no headroom! just my $.02