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[John Mark]

Hi all,

Thank you all VERY MUCH for all of your advise!
It means a lot because I really don't know what I'm doing, and having your expertise for free is awesome!

Mic was delivered today and I did some testing. Only had one of the choir girl present but I think it sounded amazing. It also picked up sound from far away, which will work great with the Adult Choir. I think I'll be keeping the 2 mics and see how they sound as we go on.
The only downside was that there's no switch on these mic, is that normal? The higher quality of the mic, that theres no switch? I'll have to remember to mute each mic when not in use from now.. Do some of you get color caps? on mics so you know which one is hooked up to which channel?

Mike Spitzer
I'm sorry but I'm having a hard time understanding your explanation, haha... But the singers will have their own mic, but it will be a shared mic for the choir.
I want to get 2 mics that could do both for the 2 girls and for the choir so I think this is a good choice. We aren't big enough to go too big into details of sound, I think spending $160/mic is still ridiculous with our size..
Thank you for your feedback!

John Fiorello
Yes, sorry for the confusion but I got 2 mics for 2 girls, each singing into one.
Sorry about the typo, hahaha. It's only 2 20" cables, and I have to get new ones because they weren't long enough... :/ Does connecting 2 20" cable drop a quality of mic noticeably?
I think I'm happy with the warranty as it's for church, there's lots of kids around and accidents are bound to happen... I just hope it happens on the first two years and none after that
Thank you for your feedback!

Arnold B. Krueger
Thanks for the technical details... I think it'll be working fine. Hopefully one day I could understand all the details you shared..
Thank you for your feedback!

dick rees
Likewise to Arnold, thank you for the details. I will keep checking back to look at the link and try to understand how mics work and different types of it..
Thank you for your feedback!

Brian Ehlers
Haha, thanks for bringing the topic back to my question.
I will check with the choir to see how they work, and see if I can spot the "thin" sound. Again I just started this so I don't know how I can fine-tune. I don't think they're too professional for me to even fine-tune their singing (no offense, just honesty)
Thank you for your feedback!

chuck clark
They're sisters, so I don't think they'll mind
Wow, I guess brand really speaks for itself. I'm glad to hear that these are long lasting mics because I hope I don't have to make another expensive purchase anytime soon!
Do your mics have switches or is that uncommon to have switches on mics?
Thank you for your feedback and I hope you also have a lovely week!

Mike Spitzer
Thank you for the conclusion. I'm new to this so it was a bit of a hard purchase for me due to price but I hope to catch up on knowledge and be able to experiment with the full potential of these mics.

Thank you all very much for taking your time into answering my question!
I'm not sure if you'll be interested but maybe one day I could upload a video of our performance (no promises, as we're really not that great haha).

I will update you with my findings.

[Taylor Phillips]

But the singers will have their own mic, but it will be a shared mic for the choir.
I want to get 2 mics that could do both for the 2 girls and for the choir so I think this is a good choice. We aren't big enough to go too big into details of sound, I think spending $160/mic is still ridiculous with our size..

Now that see what you're trying to do, I agree with the others that the Beta 58s aren't ideal.  They're fine mics, so your service should sound much better now anyway, but they're designed to pick up the the sound from one source without picking up other sources around the stage.  Also, if the choir is say, in the introduction of the song and the girls come in later, they're voices will overpower everything if you were using their mics to pick up the choir.  As for the on/off switches, yes most mics don't have them.  Never fun when your soloist forgets to turn their mic on.  Don't worry, though, you'll get used to finding which ones to mute and when.  You can get the colored windscreens if you want, I think they're a bit distracting.  You could also make sure than the mics across the stage are in the same order on the board.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

You can get the colored windscreens if you want, I think they're a bit distracting. 

I use colored cables when there is the possibility that singers will start switching mics around.  I had problems with singers removing the windscreens. 

[Mike Spitzer]

I second what Taylor said. On my board, I have all of the vocals next to each other and laid out in the same order they are on the stage. I also make it clear that they aren't to move them. In cases where people will be switching mics around (like for a play), I use a small piece of colored tape to differentiate them and match the tape to the board. That's usually only once a year, or so. We normally only have two wireless mics: a headset on the pastor and a handheld that gets passed around, so I never have to mark those. It gets more complicated if you're in a bigger church, though.

Since you're in a fairly small church, you shouldn't have to worry about that too much and you'll be able to adapt as you grow. Have fun with it.

-mS

[chuck clark]

Cheaper mics usually have on/off switches where they will probly be used in situations where there is NO soundperson. Pro mics usually do NOT have switches so that when you have several mics on stage there isn't always ONE performer who forgot to turn his mic on! (Experienced mixers learn to love consoles with mute groups that allow you to mute/unmute groups of mics)
Colored tape is most common solution. Cheaper and less obtrusive than colored windscreens or cables, although those solutions are very helpful in less ideal visual situations.
ALL directional mics exhibit "proximity" effect. which means the closer the performer is to the mic the more bass boost you get in the response. Sources farther away from the mic can sound a bit thin by comparison. Pro performers learn to "work" the mic distance. (with background singers usually being a bit further from the mics thus acheiving a "background sound" )
Finally, those 3 pin mic cord connectors aren't called XLR plugs for nothing. It stands for extra long run and most pro mics can go 300+ feet no problem.
Happy sailing!
Chuck

[Mac Kerr]

Finally, those 3 pin mic cord connectors aren't called XLR plugs for nothing. It stands for extra long run and most pro mics can go 300+ feet no problem.

Hmmm... Maybe in your dreams it stands for "extra long run". In the waking world it is just a Cannon part number.

Mac

[Tom Young]

Hmmm... Maybe in your dreams it stands for "extra long run". In the waking world it is just a Cannon part number.

Mac

Right.

ITT Cannon adapted their X-series connector by adding a 3d pin, for use with the newer (at that time) smaller body Low-Z/balanced microphones. They were then asked to incorporate a latching mechanism (L) and then made the female end with a resilient (rubber) insert block in which the contacts were embedded (R).

I *think* they did this so that the female contacts could flex (spread) as the male pins were inserted, achieving better electrical contact. I recall old XL's where the hard (non-resilient) inserts had cracked because the plastic (phenolic ?) used back then was too brittle.

Eventually Switchcraft came out with their version of this plug/jack but with no resilient female insert. They still called this an XLR(*), which was becomming a generic term. And then Neutrik came out with their XLR series, as have others (Amphenol, etc).

*some old-timers still call these modern-day 3-pin mic connectors "XL".

[Kent Thompson]

Hi all,

I'm the AV guy at small church located in Florida.
I am excited to mess with sound board but I have no idea what I'm doing, and I will appreciate any advise you have.

Current setup:
Mixer: Mackie 1642 VLZ3
Speakers: Mackie SRM450v2 x 2

- We currently have 3 cheap mics, 1 for MC/choir, 1 choir, and one for Piano.
- Guitar is using an amp
- Drum is alone.
- Church fits about 100 guests
- 2 main choir girls
- Adult choir

We have basic mics and I just placed an order from Musicians Friend for a better mic. I think I went a bit overboard and purchased a Shure 58A.

- Shure Beta 58A x2
- Gear One XLR Microphone Cable Regular 20 Feet x2090 03
- Musicians Gear MS-220 Tripod Mic Stand with Fixed Boom Regular Black x2

Total for $296.10
I also purchased a 2 year warranty from Musicians Friend for $44.99

Now, the question I want to ask is... Is this a good purchase?
We are a small church, fits about 100 guests. The two choir girls are not professional, although I think they are good in my opinion. For the adult choir, they are so-so. The reason I went for this mic is because the current mic does not pick up voices of the adult choir, and honestly I lost against the hype that came from others.

What do you guys think? Is this a good purchase?
(In case you're wondering, I bought the above items using my own money and will be donating it to church).

Thank you for your time.

We use a super cardiod for our choir which works very well. It helps limit bleed from the rest of the stage. Granted the one we are using is a different beast but, with carefull placement you could use them in a pinch. You will have to open up the gain a good bit.
 
Idealy for a choir you would want a microphone something like this(for future reference)
http://www.shure.com/americas/products/microphones/sm/sm81-instrument-microphone
 
 
A few friendly reminders might be needed with your users when they get too far off axis and the sound drops more than optimal.
 
To Dick and Arnold
 
Wouldn't that drop off of low frequencies in this particular case be usefull since most of us would High Pass Filter this microphone to at least 85hz anyway(depending on the board used). I would think the main issue with using this microphone on a choir would be the sensitivity.
 
You could always xy pair the microphones for a wider pattern on a group of people if the patern is too narrow.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

To Dick and Arnold
 
Wouldn't that drop off of low frequencies in this particular case be usefull since most of us would High Pass Filter this microphone to at least 85hz anyway(depending on the board used). I would think the main issue with using this microphone on a choir would be the sensitivity.
 
You could always xy pair the microphones for a wider pattern on a group of people if the patern is too narrow.

I was understanding (or mis-understanding) the OP to mean that the two female voices would be on one mic OR that it would be used for an actual choir pickup of multiple voices.  If used for two or three individuals in a close mic situation I do prefer the wider pattern of the cardioid mic for consistency of response over the wider area.  Such differences may or may not show in a polar plot so in the end I prefer to go with my experience. YMMV.

As for high-passing the voice channels, I'd say that I'd rather have the mic give me more than I need and take a bit off than find that I'm left wanting something for the mix that the mic does not provide.

I also prefer ORTF, mid/side or spaced pair over a co-incident setup.  But that's a personal preference.

[Jon Palmer]

Hi all,

I'm the AV guy at small church located in Florida.
I am excited to mess with sound board but I have no idea what I'm doing, and I will appreciate any advise you have.

Current setup:
Mixer: Mackie 1642 VLZ3
Speakers: Mackie SRM450v2 x 2

- We currently have 3 cheap mics, 1 for MC/choir, 1 choir, and one for Piano.
- Guitar is using an amp
- Drum is alone.
- Church fits about 100 guests
- 2 main choir girls
- Adult choir

We have basic mics and I just placed an order from Musicians Friend for a better mic. I think I went a bit overboard and purchased a Shure 58A.

- Shure Beta 58A x2
- Gear One XLR Microphone Cable Regular 20 Feet x2090 03
- Musicians Gear MS-220 Tripod Mic Stand with Fixed Boom Regular Black x2

Total for $296.10
I also purchased a 2 year warranty from Musicians Friend for $44.99

Now, the question I want to ask is... Is this a good purchase?
We are a small church, fits about 100 guests. The two choir girls are not professional, although I think they are good in my opinion. For the adult choir, they are so-so. The reason I went for this mic is because the current mic does not pick up voices of the adult choir, and honestly I lost against the hype that came from others.

What do you guys think? Is this a good purchase?
(In case you're wondering, I bought the above items using my own money and will be donating it to church).

Thank you for your time.

INHO, I would hate use a Beta 58 in a small church for a lot of reasons, mostly feedback. They'll make you work harder and magnify the quality or lack thereof in the voice. They can cause a distraction in a church service faster than a screaming baby, especially in a small building. You also may need to change your monitor eq to compensate, as well as train your vocalist how to sing into it and not to point it toward the monitors. The old trusty 58's would be the best bet for the singers unless you wanted to get a Sennheiser e835 to try to match a weaker vocal to the others. That's a small investment for a better sound. Get a shure 57 for the guitar amp. Good luck.

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