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Author Topic: "Semi-permanent" hoist - light duty - suggestions?  (Read 4010 times)

Tony "T" Tissot

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"Semi-permanent" hoist - light duty - suggestions?
« on: June 22, 2007, 05:10:28 pm »

Any suggestions for a lighter duty, semipermanent set of hoists for a load of no more than 300 lbs (I'll probably spec 1/2 ton).?

I am well familiar with the "real stuff" (CM lodestars) - and counterweight fly systems.

Wonder if there are any other budget strategies for a 2-point load, 20 feet (cheap tri truss - or batten) that does not cost so much, or require installation of a real line set.
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MNGS
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Ron Hebbard

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Re: "Semi-permanent" hoist - light duty - suggestions?
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2007, 11:57:35 pm »

Tony Tissot wrote on Fri, 22 June 2007 22:10

Any suggestions for a lighter duty, semipermanent set of hoists for a load of no more than 300 lbs (I'll probably spec 1/2 ton).?

I am well familiar with the "real stuff" (CM lodestars) - and counterweight fly systems.

Wonder if there are any other budget strategies for a 2-point load, 20 feet (cheap tri truss - or batten) that does not cost so much, or require installation of a real line set.


Hi Tony;

Without a clear idea of what you're up to, possibly two lengths of aircraft cable, over two (or three) pulleys and terminating in a common clew.
When it's out the common clew could be hooked to a point at head height.
One of the tiny CM's could be used to muscle the common clew off it's point and lower the load in.
Leave it on the hoist when in and take the hoist away when out.

Just a thought.
Of course you could do the same thing with one set of chain falls for even less money.

Possibly with a little more info, and a better understanding, more people would reply.

Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
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Tony "T" Tissot

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Re: "Semi-permanent" hoist - light duty - suggestions?
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2007, 03:45:21 am »

Thanks  Ron -

The chain falls might work. But what do I do with the chain? I can't leave it hanging. I am used to electric hoists with chain bags and remote control - with the remote wires running along the electric feed.


Do I have to climb a ladder to hide the chain in normal canvas chain baskets? I assume I don't want the hoists with the locking handle at the attachment point?

It's really for saving me time:

Simple rig at a place I do 24 shows a year at. I currently load in 18 foot towers and 26 feet of truss.  I have to clear floor space after the shows. I would like to leave a lot of the rig up. Needs to go up and down - as I put 16 to 32 pars + movers + dimmer packs on it. And I have to get the lights out for occasional light rental gigs. I can leave the stuff much of the time.

I checked into "real" line sets (4 point, with counterweights), and some used electric hoists - that starts at about $2K US used. $4K for a "real" installation!

There are 4 steel mini I-beam roof truss, perpendicular to the stage. I would like to rig something to that. The hang would either be spare 1" X 12" triangle truss or 1.5 inch pipe that I could leave in place.

And I am afraid to do line sets without counterweights. That's why hoists seem (correct me - please!) more appropriate.
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Dan Glass

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Re: "Semi-permanent" hoist - light duty - suggestions?
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2007, 06:34:46 am »

The easiest solution for me would a couple of single phase 1/4 ton CM motors.  They are lightweight and easy to move around but will carry the load you are looking to hang.  Then when you are done you could leave the motors and just remove the power and control for safety.  Hang them using steel flex and you shouldn't have any worries when you leave them behind.  Other than motors then I guess a chain fall would be next because it doesn't need power but then you will need to get up on a ladder and hide/secure the chain.  Hope that helped.
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Ron Hebbard

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Re: "Semi-permanent" hoist - light duty - suggestions?
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2007, 05:29:53 pm »

Tony Tissot wrote on Fri, 22 June 2007 22:10

Any suggestions for a lighter duty, semipermanent set of hoists for a load of no more than 300 lbs (I'll probably spec 1/2 ton).?

I am well familiar with the "real stuff" (CM lodestars) - and counterweight fly systems.

Wonder if there are any other budget strategies for a 2-point load, 20 feet (cheap tri truss - or batten) that does not cost so much, or require installation of a real line set.


Hi Tony;

Let's try this again.

You began by speaking of two points.

I was envisioning two sheaves, one at the top of each pick point.
Possibly these would be suspended from welded link chain, or aircraft cable, wrapped over your overhead beams.

You could run aircraft cable from an attachment point on your truss or pipe, up, through one of your overhead sheaves, across to a sidewall, through another sheave serving as a head block, turn 180 degrees with a thimble and Crosby, back up through a second headblock sheave, across to your second overhead sheave and back down to an attachment point on your truss or pipe.

One piece of aircraft cable with both ends terminating at your truss or pipe and a 180 degree turnaround near it's mid point.

When the truss is in, the 180 degree turnaround is just below your headblock.  
When the truss is out, the 180 degree turnaround is approximately head height and secured to a point on the wall.
A padlock could be added to keep helpful fingers from grunting the turnaround off of it's point.

When you arrive, you could use either a small CM Lodestar, or a set of chain falls anchored to a lower point to pull the 180 degree point down off it's head height tie-off point and then to raise the point and lower your truss.  
The CM or chain falls would remain near floor level paying out chain upwards as your truss comes in.
When your truss is back up to trim, you'd secure the 180 degree point back to the wall and take your CM / chain falls away with you.
This would mean working with your truss at the same high trim all the time and having two points on a wall; one to secure your truss when out and a second, lower, to anchor your CM / chainfalls.  On the wall, you could add a safety from your upper load bearing point to your lower rigging point as additional security when you're not on site.

Just an economical thought bearing in mind that I can't see your space from here and have no idea if you have a suitable wall, or vertical steel column, anywhere near convenient.

Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard




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Tony "T" Tissot

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Re: "Semi-permanent" hoist - light duty - suggestions?
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2007, 10:49:34 pm »

Ron -

Now I see it clearly! Problem solved - Thanks. I might use a chain hoist (with the bottom fixed) right against the wall - I can do this inexpensively - yet safely.

I'll CAD this out. I do have a wall - unfortunately it's aluminum studs, but I can spread the load and reinforce.
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Ron Hebbard

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Re: "Semi-permanent" hoist - light duty - suggestions?
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2007, 12:02:26 am »

Tony Tissot wrote on Sun, 24 June 2007 03:49

Ron -

Now I see it clearly! Problem solved - Thanks. I might use a chain hoist (with the bottom fixed) right against the wall - I can do this inexpensively - yet safely.

I'll CAD this out. I do have a wall - unfortunately it's aluminum studs, but I can spread the load and reinforce.


Hi again Tony;

A couple of bonus thoughts;

Two small weights, one on the end of each pick, would let you take your truss / pipe away if necessary.
A small clew plate would let you turn your 2 line set into a 3 or 4 line set if needed.

Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
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Kit Hannah

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Re: "Semi-permanent" hoist - light duty - suggestions?
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2007, 10:43:45 pm »

Why not just do some manual chain hoists? Most any rigging shop can order you manual 1/2 or 1 ton hoists with custom lengths of chain (we used to use 30 footers). Those can be had for less than $200 each and you're not having to monkey something up.

Just my 2 cents...

Kit
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Ron Hebbard

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Re: "Semi-permanent" hoist - light duty - suggestions?
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2007, 01:14:55 am »

Kit Hannah wrote on Mon, 02 July 2007 03:43

Why not just do some manual chain hoists? Most any rigging shop can order you manual 1/2 or 1 ton hoists with custom lengths of chain (we used to use 30 footers). Those can be had for less than $200 each and you're not having to monkey something up.

Just my 2 cents...

Kit


Hi Kit;

Tony spoke against chain falls thusly in post number 221929 on Saturday June 23rd/07:

"The chain falls might work. But what do I do with the chain? I can't leave it hanging. I am used to electric hoists with chain bags and remote control - with the remote wires running along the electric feed.

Do I have to climb a ladder to hide the chain in normal canvas chain baskets? I assume I don't want the hoists with the locking handle at the attachment point?"



Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
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E. Lee Dickinson

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Re: "Semi-permanent" hoist - light duty - suggestions?
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2007, 09:30:52 am »

Some good advice in here, some bad. First, wrapping a beam with chain: Not a good idea. Chain, even welded proof coil chain, is not designed to be side loaded. A chain link resting against the edge of the beam is a weakened chain link, and would not pass the scrutiny of an inspector who knew what he was looking at.

Second, using motors for any kind of permanent install: We ALL do it. We have all been to clubs that do it. This is standard accepted practice in our clubs and in our touring industry.

Unfortunately, the first page of CM Lodestar manuals say to use the hoist for lifting, then secure the load. Do not use while anyone is under it, etc. So again, knowledgeable inspectors will fail a load hung solely from a motor lift not specifically designed for such.

I have been failed for the first item (chain around a beam), but luckily never for the second item. I secure the load to the ceiling  on about 60% of jobs.
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