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Author Topic: QSC PL380  (Read 49568 times)

Kris Krell

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QSC PL380
« on: June 13, 2007, 12:07:26 AM »

 I recently had the pleasure of hosting a demo QSC PL380. This amp is basically QSC's answer to IT8K & FP6400. Although it seems like a long time coming, it looks like they have come up with a really attractive package. I did not have the time or the facilities to bench test it, so this is only a subjective review from a mostly Crown user.

The first thing I noticed about it is that all the ins, outs and controls are laid out and labeled in a very CLEAR and LOGICAL fashion, which is not something I can say for all amps. ALL controls on the rear panel have associated LED's to indicate the switch settings, with parallel and bridge mode even duplicated on the front panel. No more crawling in w/ the maglite and squinting into a dusty hole... +1 for functional design.

It's Class D and rated 2500wpc @ 4 and 4000wpc* @ 2 (1kHz, 1%thd) ...which is kinda weird, but if I've learned one thing here, its that numbers on paper are not the last word on performance. I had it for one day, and I had the perfect job for it - standing in for a *pair* of MA5K's on subwoofer duty at a sold-out show with 32 inputs of electronics, guitars and vox, and a lot of hysterical fans. We would find out what this amp can do.
I was a little nervous and on some level didn't really believe it would be up to the task (maybe it was that little star by the output rating). I was ready to jump back to the 5K's at the first sign of trouble.

The PL380 comes equipped with a NEMA L-5-30. In this case, the L5 jacked right in to the local RacPac (so the amp was getting its 30 amp hole - which it seems would be crucial for 2 ohm operation). Add to this the amps NL4/banana output option, and the swap out was a snap. I have heard talk that the goal is to have powercon but that it just hasn't happened yet...

Adjustable input sensitivity (26db, 32db and 1.2v) helped me to match it exactly to the amps that were already there, @ 26db. It also has XLR thrus for daisy chaining AND two euro-block connectors paralleled as well. The inputs are further paralleled to the 'HD15' 15-pin data connector which can then achieve amp control/monitoring as well as analog audio signal routing. Lot of options here.

Amp was run in stereo, 2 ohms/ch, and I left the clip limiters on just to see if we could make them work. I defeated the onboard hpf (it has 30hz and 50hz settings). The system dsp limiter was set @ +16 20:1, hpf was 34.1 24db/oct LW.

As soon the first signal passed it was obvious something was up. Even at low levels there was a certain distinct character to the bass. My very first impression was that it seemed to have a bit of an attitude... just slightly aggressive, like it couldn't wait to be turned up. Beyond that, I won't try with the slippery descriptors, but after 3 or 4 tracks at high levels, some Sade, Me'shell Ndegeocello and Kraftwerk, I had a big smile on my face and was remembering clearly all the particular descriptions of labsters raving about the sound of IT8K when it came out.

The show was fantastic. I told the tour guy early in the day that he could let it rip, he was very cool and said he didn't want to hurt anything. I assured him it would be ok and he did end up hitting it pretty hard, up to around 105c @ foh - 75'. As the show went on I kept checking on the amp to see how hard it was working... I just could not believe what I was hearing compared to what I was looking at. It just sat there, obediently flashing its lights, with a small, efficient fan pushing a small amount of warm air out the front. I never did see it clip or limit despite the heavy, bass-intensive program.

When one considers they are made in Costa Mesa, California & aren't owned by BLOB INC., the extensive control, monitoring and dsp *options*, a stellar customer support history, the Class H 340 and 325, 3+3 year warranty AND Bob Lee... Not to mention the fact that they street for around $1K less than FP6400 and $1700 less than IT8K... well it's just about enough to get a left-coast sound geek with a pile of old Macrotechs kind of excited.

In fact, the only thing I didn't like about it was the little blue power led on the front... Lets just say blue wouldn't have been my first choice...

The unit I had did have one minor cosmetic issue, a visibly rough edge on the badge on the front panel. In fact, the same defect is visible on the front of the 340 pictured in the PL3 glossy brochure, pretty good sense of humor down there in SoCal I guess. I would generally be unconcerned about this as a buyer, but as it is the flagship model, some customers MAY expect cosmetic perfection AND amazing value>performance.
In any case it was very minor and I'm sure its being addressed.

To sum,

You know that feeling you get when you are using or learning a piece of well thought out gear, suddenly it all makes sense, and you get the fleeting idea that the engineering staff responsible for creating it is somehow winking at you, right thought the piece of equipment?

Well anyway, it's a good feeling. Kudos to a bunch of folks who seem to have earned it.

-kk





edit: L530 note, sensitivity options 'helped', 'heavy', cosmetic clarification, sp
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Michael 'Bink' Knowles

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Re: QSC PL380
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2007, 02:06:36 AM »

Wow! High praise, indeed. Looking forward to the day when I come across one of these guys.

Good review!

-Bink
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Langston Holland

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Re: QSC PL380
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2007, 12:05:24 PM »

Kris wrote on Tue, 12 June 2007:

As soon the first signal passed it was obvious something was up. Even at low levels there was a certain distinct character to the bass. My very first impression was that it seemed to have a bit of an attitude... just slightly aggressive,...


Nice post Kris. :) You may get in trouble with some of that Stereophile-ish wordage, but sometimes there's no other way I know of (yet) to describe something. I too noticed a distinctly different sound with the I-T8000 on subs (tops turned off) compared to the QSC PLX3402 and Crest 9001 with a single EAW BH760 sub using a 74Hz 4th order LR low pass. It was a fascinating morning, I just set the gains the same on the three amps and swapped them around with my entire workforce (poor Luke) agreeing with me (he always agrees, might have something to do with the fact that I write his checks...).

Using a kick drum recording I made with a Beta 91 about 3" from the beater head, the lovely Crest was was the darkest sounding, the QSC was slightly brighter, and the I-Tech had a distinct edge to it. The same differences were apparent whether low or high volume. I preferred the sound of the Crest (also God's favorite sub amp BTW) while my rebellious (he's a drummer) employee liked the Crown best. There were no measurable differences between any of the amps in that application with Smaart that I could pick out. It was something not visible in the magnitude or phase plots as they were virtually identical. Methinks something nonlinear was involved.

Once you turn the tops on it was impossible for me to hear the differences between these 3 amps on sub duty.

Moral of the story: don't eat heavy foods just after a 3 day bout with a stomach flu.
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Eric Wong!

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Re: QSC PL380
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2007, 10:12:46 AM »

Nice review, I have a single 80 lb MA5000VZ and its a back breaker and ancient.. perhaps its time to upgrade!
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Jeff Knorr - Cobra Sound

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Re: QSC PL380
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2007, 04:23:55 PM »

We have two of the PL380's on the way this week.  I'll post back once we get to fire them up!

Jeff
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Langston Holland

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Re: QSC PL380 (Part II)
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2007, 12:28:46 AM »

This may be a bit of an exercise in ego on my part, but I wonder if Pat Quilter would have made the following points in a couple of recent publications concerning their new flagship amp without the I-Tech load dependence expose'. The following quotes are the more entertaining portions to me. Regardless, this thing looks like an excellent set of engineering compromises and I've ordered 6 PL380's with a promise from the dealer that I can give them back if I'm not happy.

From QSC's white paper titled: "Design Considerations for High-Output Portable Amplifiers":

Pg 4:

"The output filter must blend the pulses together to reconstruct the desired audio output. It is basically a high-power low-pass filter whose cutoff frequency is set just above the audio range, but low enough to block the switching frequency. This requires large passive components whose quality and performance set limits on what the Class D amplifier can achieve. Among other problems, the filter's roll off damping is dependent on the load impedance, which is highly variable at 20 kHz. Therefore, Class D amplifiers have struggled with load dependent high-frequency response."

Pg 6:

"Since the internal error correction reduces THD by 20 dB, the overall global feedback can be tailored primarily to correct the output filter's behavior. Without feedback, the output filter response at 20 kHz would vary by 20 dB or more depending on load impedance. Due to the carefully tuned feedback network utilized in the PL380, this variance is reduced to about 1.5 dB from no-load to 2 ohms and THD is reduced to as little as 0.01%, comparable to most good linear amps. At 10 kHz, the total frequency-vs-load variance is less than 0.4 dB and below 5 kHz, impedance has no effect on frequency response. A major competitor suffers from several times the variation at 20 kHz, accompanied by significant peaking at 2-3 kHz moving in the opposite direction, thus producing a distinctly audible sonic signature into certain loads."

From QSC's "Detailed Power Ratings For PL3 Series":

Pg 5:

index.php/fa/9913/0/

"This chart shows the frequency response into various loads on an expanded vertical scale (+1dB, -5dB) Class-D amplifiers traditionally suffer from excessive output impedance at high frequencies due to the inductive filter required to remove switching frequencies. The PL380 holds this load-dependent frequency variance to +/-0.8dB at 20kHz, and +/-0.25dB at 10kHz. Note that the output impedance is relatively uniform up to 5kHz, and varies in a simple manner above this point, thus avoiding midband coloration. Note also that the amplifier has usable frequency response extending to 40kHz or higher."
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: QSC PL380 (Part II)
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2007, 11:12:31 AM »

No doubt your discussion of this apparent design decision (trade off?) in this forum did not go unnoticed by competitors. It is the business of technology driven companies to know where the chinks are in competitor's armour. In a mature marketplace where amplifiers are more similar than different, small differences will get magnified out of proportion to create a merchantable difference giving the faithful something to be proud of and maybe gain some new converts.

In the past this has been IMO mostly inaudible characteristics like slew rate or damping factor, but many dollars of merchandise have been sold in the name of "faster" and "more".  Amplifiers really are more similar than different (in linear operation) but people have a strong expectation that they differ by brand.

In general it is poor form to mention a competitor's weakness at least so overtly (in print). In this case I suspect the motivation may be in explanation or apology for the class D amp's still inferior frequency response changes with load when compared to conventional technology, as in "our worse than analog is less bad than theirs."

While competitors surely know where the skeletons are buried they aren't always the most honest communicators to the marketplace of this very useful data. I once suggested to a magazine reviewer who was asking my opinion about a product category, just ask the competition if you want to know what the others did wrong. But confirm for your self once they tell you where to look.

I agree that this needed to be addressed and the one positive I see about doing this in print is that it won't get horribly exaggerated propagating through the sales channel. The general method of arming sales forces with selling points sometimes turns into that old kindergarten game of telephone where by the time the message gets repeated to the customer the amplifier causes cancer or something worse.

In today's world, real user experience reported on web forums like this is increasingly important. Keep up the good work.

JR

 
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Jeff Knorr - Cobra Sound

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Re: QSC PL380
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2007, 09:37:23 AM »

We've had our PL380's out a few times now and have been fairly impressed.  I'm still waiting for the amplifier with unlimited output power but the PL380's might hold us over until then.

Kris wrote a great review and I think he covered most of the highlights.  I would like to add that it looks like these amplifiers just sip AC power.  We ran them on power as low as 100-105 VAC without any issues (might have been slightly reduced headroom but it was hard to tell without several other gigs under our belt for a reference point).  Last night, at our local Independence Day celebration, we used two PL380's, each with a single Danley SH-50 per channel with excellent results.  The system was run fullrange (yay for leaving the subs in the trailer) and we were able to achieve a great sound with ample headroom for a crowd of 1000+.

Jeff


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Paul Bell

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Re: QSC PL380 (Part II)
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2007, 06:04:02 PM »

I was handed a PL380 loaner from my rep this morning. First, I put it on a test bench. I drove an 8 Ohm dummy load to 1,458 watts without distress. The wave form was very smooth. Much smoother than when compared to other big watt digital amps. The guys doing the testing were very impressed. I'm a little leary of how small the heat sink is but I'm sure the boys at QSC put the unit through it's paces.

I'll be connecting it to a pair of BASSMAXX Trip cabinets to see how it does through some hard core club stuff.

More to come...
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Paul Bell
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Bob Lee (QSC)

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Re: QSC PL380 (Part II)
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2007, 01:39:04 PM »

Hi Paul,

I don't know what the other amps are, but the PL380 isn't digital. It's class D with an analog modulator.
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