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Author Topic: got growlers? i want reviews + pics!  (Read 55576 times)

Rick Powell

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Re: got growlers? i want reviews + pics!
« Reply #100 on: February 14, 2009, 01:46:47 am »

Sounds like a winner...I'd have to seriously consider it when I'm in the market for subs sometime later this year.  Perhaps a manufacturer could "OEM" one to your specs.  Heck, the Eminence LAB 12 was born of a DIY cab, and they likely had no idea if the product would have a steady clientele.  At least this driver would support a comercially manufactured product with a potential shelf life.
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Rick Powell
StudioLive 16:4:2
JTR Triple 8 Mains
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Mark Hobbs

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Re: got growlers? i want reviews + pics!
« Reply #101 on: February 15, 2009, 05:11:39 pm »

Phillip Graham wrote on Wed, 11 February 2009 22:14


Jeff is almost assuredly not speaking about the drivers' input power capacity.

He is likely speaking of 1 of two things:
1.  A driver with a higher BL product for the motor
2.  A driver with more usable XMAX.



Well, by wanting to increase the sensitivity by 3db and double the power handling of the standard growler with the 15 inch version it would appear that he is almost assuredly talking about input power capacity and that you were wrong.

Either that or am I missing something.
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Jeff Permanian

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Re: got growlers? i want reviews + pics!
« Reply #102 on: February 16, 2009, 12:39:09 pm »

Mark Hobbs wrote on Sun, 15 February 2009 16:11

Phillip Graham wrote on Wed, 11 February 2009 22:14


Jeff is almost assuredly not speaking about the drivers' input power capacity.

He is likely speaking of 1 of two things:
1.  A driver with a higher BL product for the motor
2.  A driver with more usable XMAX.



Well, by wanting to increase the sensitivity by 3db and double the power handling of the standard growler with the 15 inch version it would appear that he is almost assuredly talking about input power capacity and that you were wrong.

Either that or am I missing something.



and Xmax.
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Phillip_Graham

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Re: got growlers? i want reviews + pics!
« Reply #103 on: February 16, 2009, 01:38:12 pm »

Mark Hobbs wrote on Sun, 15 February 2009 17:11

Phillip Graham wrote on Wed, 11 February 2009 22:14


Jeff is almost assuredly not speaking about the drivers' input power capacity.

He is likely speaking of 1 of two things:
1.  A driver with a higher BL product for the motor
2.  A driver with more usable XMAX.



Well, by wanting to increase the sensitivity by 3db and double the power handling of the standard growler with the 15 inch version it would appear that he is almost assuredly talking about input power capacity and that you were wrong.

Either that or am I missing something.



Mark, you are indeed missing something.

The vast majority of modern drivers, in almost all speaker alignments, have more power handling capability than they do excursion capability.

Practically, in most loading situations, the way you add power handling is by adding XMAX!  A few very good horn-loaded systems, the best of the tapped horns, and some 6th order bandpass systems have enough driver loading to provide excursion control sufficient to render them voice coil heating limited, rather than XMAX limited.  A short horn like the growler is almost assuredly going to need as much XMAX help as it can get.

Increasing the sensitivity 3dB would require a driver whose parameters are more compatible with the horns' acoustic impedance, to improve the power transfer.  Depending on the nature of the horn that is going to lead a specific BL product target, hence my note 1.

Edit:  I figured out the driver used in the Growler, and it only has a moderate BL product, so perhaps a higher BL product will not be needed.
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Mark Hobbs

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Re: got growlers? i want reviews + pics!
« Reply #104 on: February 16, 2009, 08:55:52 pm »

Phillip Graham wrote on Mon, 16 February 2009 12:38

Mark, you are indeed missing something.

The vast majority of modern drivers, in almost all speaker alignments, have more power handling capability than they do excursion capability.

Practically, in most loading situations, the way you add power handling is by adding XMAX!  A few very good horn-loaded systems, the best of the tapped horns, and some 6th order bandpass systems have enough driver loading to provide excursion control sufficient to render them voice coil heating limited, rather than XMAX limited.  A short horn like the growler is almost assuredly going to need as much XMAX help as it can get.

Increasing the sensitivity 3dB would require a driver whose parameters are more compatible with the horns' acoustic impedance, to improve the power transfer.  Depending on the nature of the horn that is going to lead a specific BL product target, hence my note 1.

Edit:  I figured out the driver used in the Growler, and it only has a moderate BL product, so perhaps a higher BL product will not be needed.


That makes sense. Adding to the xmax adds to the power handling (if the xmax is the limiting factor) and Jeff wants to add to the power handling. When Jeff said "3 db more sensitivity an twice the power handling" I wasn't thinking about the possibility of the xmax being the weak link.
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Russ Havrylik

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Re: got growlers? i want reviews + pics!
« Reply #105 on: March 11, 2009, 02:52:17 am »

Hey Jeff, what about putting two 12's in the super growler? It would save you the trouble of having to source a 15" driver. I have absolutely no experience in designing or building speakers so please excuse my ignorance if there is an obvious reason why this would not be a consideration.

Personally I would be all over a dual 12 growler that took the place of 2 growlers (as long as it was under 135lbs and less $ than 2 growlers)

I bought 6 growlers from you a year or so ago after renting Rob's 4. I put 2 in a club and kept 4 for myself. Mine have been great but the meathead dj's in the club managed to blow both drivers in the club (at different times). I had them running parallel on one side of a rmx 5050, I took that out and loaned them one of my LG fp6400's and they have been fine ever since, only problem is I want my amp back but don't know what to put in there instead.

Anyway I have been wanting to buy at least 4 more growlers so I could do 4 per side arranged like the pic from the beer fest with the 4733's on top. but it would be sweet to be able to get two more subs that have the output of 4 growlers. Although I am not sure what it would do to the sound to mix the subs like that, then again it is probably a waste of time to continue with endless speculation. Whatever design you decide on I am sure it will be amazing.

Oh and if I can ever get my credit card debt paid down I have been dying to get 4 or 6 triple 12's, any chance you could make triple 12m's with pole mounts and feet on one end so that they could be used as monitors or mains?
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Rick Powell

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Re: got growlers? i want reviews + pics!
« Reply #106 on: March 11, 2009, 04:21:15 pm »

Russ Havrylik wrote on Wed, 11 March 2009 01:52

Hey Jeff, what about putting two 12's in the super growler?


If you want a Super Growler, I guess you could just epoxy glue 2 of 'em together! Very Happy
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Rick Powell
StudioLive 16:4:2
JTR Triple 8 Mains
Danley TH115 Subwoofers
Bag End TA15 Floor Monitors
Crown xti6000/4000/2000

"There are two types of people...those who divide people into two types, and those who don't."

Russ Havrylik

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Re: got growlers? i want reviews + pics!
« Reply #107 on: March 11, 2009, 05:40:29 pm »

of course, why didn't I think of that
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Jaraad Brown

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Re: got growlers? i want reviews + pics!
« Reply #108 on: July 10, 2009, 03:14:51 am »

Here is a video of me and Jeff playing around with 2 growlers. The amp used in this video was a QSC plx 1804 which is 900 at a 4 ohm load (450 watts per growler). I know they were EXTREMELY underpowered but here is a sample of what the growlers can do even when they are EXTREMELY underpowered. Very Happy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-LXr7gXTCg&feature=chann el_page
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Jeff Permanian

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Re: got growlers? i want reviews + pics!
« Reply #109 on: August 29, 2009, 10:17:17 pm »

6x Growlers, 2x Triple 8's and 1 gymnasium
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j123/racingxtc7/DSCN0315.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j123/racingxtc7/DSCN0344.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j123/racingxtc7/DSCN0343.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j123/racingxtc7/DSCN0326.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j123/racingxtc7/DSCN0318.jpg
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