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Author Topic: Vocals in separate PA  (Read 31895 times)

Jeff Davis

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Re: Vocals in separate PA
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2007, 03:42:39 am »

That's pretty much the same way I ran the systems for Princess Cruises when I worked there. Center cluster and backfills for vocals, L&R for music/band and then both in the delays. Brought tons of vocal clarity to the theater while keeping the SPL low.
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Jeff Davis
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TrevorMilburn

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Re: Vocals in separate PA
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2007, 04:25:21 am »

Showing my age again - I same to recall the same topics being discussed on the old LAB in about 1998 - LCR vs LR systems. There will always be advantages & disadvantages to this approach and the similar (in some respects)use of aux-fed subs + full range systems. Dave Rat has also talked about the problems inherent in using Microwedges (and other monitors) for combined vocal and instrument use - again all to do with various forms of 'interference' (for a better word). I guess if you've got the usual resources (money, manpower, time and flying capacity anything that improves the final sound quality has got to be utilised - although for obvious reasons most would draw the line at the Wall of Sound approach already mentioned here!

Regards,
Trevor
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Bennett Prescott

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Re: Vocals in separate PA
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2007, 10:02:29 am »

For monitors "splitting" your PA is easy... since you only have to cover one person, not several tens of thousands, doubling their speaker count and mix count (as long as your board can handle it) involves just throwing another cabinet on stage. I run separate vocal and instrument mixes all the time.

As for LCR vs. LR vs. Whatever you want to call what Dave's doing... it comes down to this, entirely: Is it worth the small but significant sound clarity advantage to you to carry 1.5 - 2x the PA, with all the attendant problems? For almost everyone, the answer is no.
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-- Bennett Prescott
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Dave Dermont

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Re: Vocals in separate PA
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2007, 11:13:08 am »

Advanced techniques usually work best when implemented by advanced users. If you feel like you're up to it, I see no reason to NOT give it a try.

I personally feel there would be little advantage gained from the extra effort, but hey, I have been wrong before.

I once used a PA where they had a couple Bose 802s on each side hooked up to the console's vocal submaster output. In this case, it was two totally different kinds of PA systems. It was an interesting exercise, the results were not horrible, but I'd still rather have one "proper" PA than two half-assed ones.

Please report back with your findings.
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Deron Lucatorta

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Re: Vocals in separate PA
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2007, 11:47:03 am »

Dave Dermont wrote on Thu, 03 May 2007 10:13

I'd still rather have one "proper" PA than two half-assed ones.


I would have to second this....
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Patrick Tracy

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Re: Vocals in separate PA
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2007, 01:37:55 pm »

I can see the advantage of such a system but I would ask myself how much benefit I would achieve and compare that to the extra time and effort required for load in and set up. More speakers to move and wire, possibly more processing and more tuning time seem like disadvantages to me. This is from the perspective of a one-man operation doing gigs with limited load in and set up time.

guy poindexter

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Re: Vocals in separate PA
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2007, 03:28:05 pm »

If you were doing this on an install, would you prefer a center cluster or another set of speakers on the outer edge of stage for your vocal mix. Swerving just a little, would it be better to use 2 mixer boards, one for vocal and one for instruments?
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Kyle Abel

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Re: Vocals in separate PA
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2007, 03:50:31 pm »

If I read the posts on Rat Sound's blog, they clustered the "vocal" speakers in with the rest of the speakers.  Having the vocal speakers separated away from the rest of the mains would produce an akward sound, I would imagine.  I also think Rat Sound kept the vocal speakers towards the stage-center edge of the clusters.

However, if you were doing an install such as a church, where the pastor's voice would have it's own speakers, it might make sense to fly the vocals' speakers in the middle.  I guess it depends on the application.

Bennett Prescott

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Re: Vocals in separate PA
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2007, 06:56:29 pm »

Deron Lucatorta wrote on Thu, 03 May 2007 11:47

Dave Dermont wrote on Thu, 03 May 2007 10:13

I'd still rather have one "proper" PA than two half-assed ones.
I would have to second this....

Thirdeded.
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-- Bennett Prescott
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Reid Hall

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Re: Vocals in separate PA
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2007, 07:07:41 pm »

Having two PAs can actually reduce phase issues. This is because instead of combining in as audio inside the board the sounds will ombine as sound out in the air he way God intended. This is especially helpful in musical theatre production.

Two lav mic wearing actors singing a duet with thei noses almost touching would normally cause horrible phase problems, but if you run one into an "A"PA and on into a "B"PA, no problem. The sounds combine in the air and not the PA.


I am shure running vox in its own PA will produc similar advanages.
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