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Author Topic: BBC Documentary  (Read 2228 times)

Ryan Lantzy

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BBC Documentary
« on: March 28, 2007, 09:51:18 am »

Since we've had a slight rules change I thought I'd share something I found about 2 weeks ago on Google video.

BBC4 created a documentary about global warming.  It is titled "The Great Global Warming Swindle."

Here's a link to it:  http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4499562022478442170& amp; amp;q=Global+Warming+Swindle&hl=en

Copies of the video appear and reappear on Google so, if the link doesn't work just search for it at http://video.google.com.

The three major scientific claims as I see it in the film are:

1) That weather balloon research conducted by John Christy (Professor, Department of Atmospheric Science, University of Alabama in Huntsville and Lead Author, IPCC) and others does not indicate that "greenhouse global warming" is happening.  The theory of greenhouse global warming holds that the upper atmosphere would warm at the same rate as the lower atmosphere.  This has not been the case.  The balloon data shows no increase in the upper atmosphere.

2) Water Vapor is the largest contributor to global warming (making up 95% of greenhouse gases).  Additionally, cosmic rays from outer space are what aid in cloud formation in the upper atmosphere and that periods of high solar activity increase solar winds, deflecting the cosmic rays from the Earth.  Less clouds equals more of the suns energy getting to the surface combined with the increased solar output.

3) The records of temperature change and CO2 levels have not been accurately represented, and that increases in CO2 levels LAG temperature increases by about 800 years.  This is further amplified by the statements of Carl Wunsch (Professor, Department of Oceanography, M.I.T.) whose research has demonstrated that the Oceans have about a 500-1000 year "memory" affect of the Earth's climate.  Basically, as the temperature warms, CO2 is less easily dissolved in salt water.  As temperature cools, CO2 is more readily dissolved in salt water.  Additionaly, the same data that has been used to show temperature following CO2 levels (in support of man-made warming), can not explain why during the post WWII era of 1940-1975 when there was a HUGE economic boom and increase in CO2 levels, global temperatures actually went down until they started to rise again during the late 1970's.

The film also goes after the issue of just how politicized the topic has become and how hard it is for real science to be done on the matter.

The film's producer Martin Durkin has been known to produce controversial films.  In 1997 he was accused of misleading interviewees and distoring the truth during the creation of a documentary "Against Nature."

This most recent film has been criticized as well.  With one of the contributors denouncing it.

None-the-less... I suggest you watch it if you are interested in this stuff.  It is a well formed documentary with contributions from about 20 respected Scientists, authors, and others involved in Greenpeace, Scientific Journals and organizations.

It is interesting to note that several of those that were interviewed were contributors to the UN IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) Report... including one Lead Author!
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Ryan Lantzy
"In the beginner's mind the possibilities are many, in the expert's mind they are few."

John Roberts {JR}

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Re: BBC Documentary
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2007, 02:20:38 pm »

You can Google this subject until your fingers are bloody stumps and all you will find are reasoned opinions and dueling conspiracy theories from both camps to discredit the opposing reasoned theories. No offense to Muldar but the answers aren't out there (yet).

Anyone so confident in their judgement to proclaim they know the "truth" can only be judged after time passes as wise or foolish. Any drastic responses to this perceived emergency in the meanwhile needs to be tempered with awareness for the law of unintended consequences, especially if we start messing with with our environment on a large scale (it's not nice to fool mother nature, etc).

JR

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Ryan Lantzy

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Re: BBC Documentary
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2007, 12:44:07 am »

John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Wed, 28 March 2007 14:20

Anyone so confident in their judgement to proclaim they know the "truth" can only be judged after time passes as wise or foolish. Any drastic responses to this perceived emergency in the meanwhile needs to be tempered with awareness for the law of unintended consequences, especially if we start messing with with our environment on a large scale (it's not nice to fool mother nature, etc).  


JR,

I'm not sure I buy anyone's theory on global warming yet.  What I do know is that opinion seems to have recently spiked with the belief that whatever warming has occurred, that it's anthropogenic.  I consider myself a pretty big skeptic, and when I heard about the ice core data several years back, I found myself starting to really wonder if it was true.  

You also have to realize, I grew up in a time frame and atmosphere where environmentalism was pushed hard in schools and man made global warming was taught as fact (I'm 28 by the way).  I can remember lessons in grade school talking about a whole host of issues, related to humans affecting the planet in one way or another.

I only look at that documentary as a "hey, maybe we don't have this totally figured out yet."  For me, if it takes someone shouting on the other side of the aisle to get the attention of the majority, then so be it.  Just so the discussion stays active, and research isn't stifled.  Which, sadly, it will now be harder than ever to sift out the nuggets of gold from the name calling and accusations of fraud.

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Ryan Lantzy
"In the beginner's mind the possibilities are many, in the expert's mind they are few."

John Roberts {JR}

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Re: BBC Documentary
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2007, 12:37:53 pm »

I'm inclined to agree there is a preponderance of opinion that human activity is causing climate change. Unfortunately governments rarely overcome their inertia to act in some thoughtful reasoned fashion, but more commonly react only after an issue is raised to emergency or high profile status by news and polls which take the pulse of and reflect popular wisdom (and I use that term loosely).

The fact that the proponents of the argument for taking immediate action appear to be a little hyperbolic in stating their claims, merely shows a deft understanding of the political process. It also appears big business has surrendered to the inevitable and is positioning themselves to profit from the wave of smokestack scrubbers, and co2 capture.

Any real answer may be academic already, my larger concern is that we do no harm in our do-gooding. Banning DDT is responsible for many malaria related deaths in 3rd world nations, lets not make a similar mistake.

JR
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Ryan Lantzy

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Re: Unintended consequences
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2007, 01:06:21 pm »

"JR wrote"

Banning DDT is responsible for many malaria related deaths in 3rd world nations, lets not make a similar mistake.


Yeah.  I was surprised to learn from a close friend who is a biology grad, that studies of the effects of DDT on humans have been very conflicting, but opinion is shifting and it is generally believed that DDT is mostly harmless to humans in the concentrations used for pesticide.

The primary means of a toxic dose are through bio-magnification.  Since the stuff gets stored in the fat cells when animals eat other smaller animals.  DDT is toxic to fish and supposedly causes the thinning of the egg shells of certain birds.

Estimates are that around 2 million people die every year from malaria, much of which could have been prevented by DDT use in third world countries.  However, the widespread use in those nations started about the same time that countries started to ban its use and importing products that had been sprayed with it.

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Ryan Lantzy
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Iain_Macdonald

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Re: BBC Documentary _NOT
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2007, 04:14:52 pm »

Hi,

This film was shown on Channnel 4 which is different to BBC4. http://tinyurl.com/3a4aev

The main contributors to the program have written an interesting book on their theory. It is mentioned on this site. http://tinyurl.com/2lkqs3

Further information on the experiments going on to prove this theory are mentioned at http://tinyurl.com/yvc5up

Over here in the UK it caused a lot of discussion and comment. I would add to your observations. Lazy politicians, scientists, activists and others with a hidden agenda, are lumping together Global Warming, Pollution, and Energy issues.

Iain.
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Tony "T" Tissot

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Re: Unintended consequences
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2007, 04:30:53 pm »

Ryan Lantzy wrote on Thu, 29 March 2007 10:06

Yeah.  I was surprised to learn from a close friend who is a biology grad, that studies of the effects of DDT on humans have been very conflicting, but opinion is shifting and it is generally believed that DDT is mostly harmless to humans in the concentrations used for pesticide.



Priceless quote.. from a real biology grad!!
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dave stojan

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Re: BBC Documentary
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2007, 10:46:52 pm »

If you think BBC4 is gospel you might enjoy a BBC series called "The Power of Nightmares". I found it interesting. Have a google.  Smile
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Ryan Lantzy

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Re: BBC Documentary
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2007, 12:40:02 am »

dave stojan wrote on Mon, 02 April 2007 22:46

If you think BBC4 is gospel you might enjoy a BBC series called "The Power of Nightmares". I found it interesting. Have a google.  Smile


Who said anything about it being "gospel?"

I think you are just trying to make this about religion.  Rolling Eyes
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Ryan Lantzy
"In the beginner's mind the possibilities are many, in the expert's mind they are few."

dave stojan

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Re: BBC Documentary
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2007, 09:52:46 am »

Ryan Lantzy wrote on Tue, 03 April 2007 05:40

dave stojan wrote on Mon, 02 April 2007 22:46

If you think BBC4 is gospel you might enjoy a BBC series called "The Power of Nightmares". I found it interesting. Have a google.  Smile


Who said anything about it being "gospel?"

I think you are just trying to make this about religion.  Rolling Eyes


I used a lower case 'g', therefore no religious affiliation intended  Razz
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