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Author Topic: JTR Growler Subs  (Read 80400 times)

Mike Christy

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JTR Growler Subs
« on: March 25, 2007, 04:40:45 pm »

I took kind of a chance. And it paid off. I am not normally one to take risks or chances, especially when it comes to spending $1800 on a pair of speakers that I haven't even heard. But after pestering and emailing Jeff Permanian with too many emails to count, asking spec questions, asking measurement questions, asking design questions, asking stupid questions, I purchased 2 JTR Growler subs, sight and sound, unseen and unheard.

All I can say is WOW. I am blown away by their output and quality for such a small box. If you have any doubt about Jeff and his speakers, put it to rest. These subs are world class. They are small, they are efficient, they are loud, round, full, punchy. They are what a sub should be. There's a reason why many other subs cost less ( I'll leave out the manufacture names, you know who they are ), basically you get what you pay for, and the JTR Growlers are a wicked deal - they could cost more IMHO. I initially thought Id buy 2, then down the road 2 more, well... I don't think Ill need two more.

My first gig with them was a bass-demanding hip-hop show. You know that 40Hz ringing bass stuff - boingy bass I call it. Well there was plenty of that. My set up was:

RMX1450 #1 tops bridged mono left side, 900W
RMX1450 #2 tops bridged mono right side, 900W
RMX2450 #1 Growler #1 bridged mono, 1500W
RMX2450 #2 Growler #2 bridged mono, 1500W

Processing : Rane 2way xover (mono sub out, <100hz), Symetrix comp/limiter, Rane EQ. Studiomaster board.

The Growlers were clustered in the center of the stage, exactly 8' from a wall on the left and right side (no cancellations). There was no boundary behind them as the stage was only 8" tall.

The Growlers are very efficient, as most folded horns are. Even though I had my gain structure set up correctly, I had to significantly scale back my sub drive as it was over powering my top boxes. To correlate this fact further, at the end of the evening, when shutting down the amps, the 2 1450s were blowing warm air, while the 2 2450s were as cool as a cucumber - not even working. But the bass output was so marvelous.

I mixed to a very modest level, I measured conservatively an average +106db back at the board (Jeff says +115 db is very doable) , but I was trying to be very cautious since this was my first time out with the Growlers. My sub amps were idling the entire night. I kept my board output level -10db below peak levels all night long, and that's with the gain structure nuts on from the board to the amp. That shows how much reserve was left in the system, but it was still filling the room with quality lows and good his/mids. Walking around the room there was fullness everywhere, no dead spots, and when they were 10 deep at the stage, absolutely no reduction in sub SPL.

The cabinets came very well packed in thick hardboard insulation. I wasn't sure Id like the line-x coating, but it is a great idea. The next thing I need to do is print up DO NOT STEP signs and place them on the cabs, as the talent automatically tried to use them as an extra stage.

If anyone is debating the purchase of new subs, I highly recommend looking into the JTRs. I was on the fence, I had doubts,  I wasn't sure if I should believe the shootout and the specs. I think the speakers are better than the specs. Feeling that power bass in the chest was awesome. I cant wait for the next gig to blow people way...

Happy Camper - Mike

I just wanted to add to this: A big thank you to all the guys and vendors that put together the sub shootout. I believe there must have been sacrifices, and volunteering involved, and it is all appreciated. Everyone who contributed played a key role in helping to clarify what top subs are available and what their relative performance is.
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Pisces Sound
Seacoast New Hampshire
Southern Maine

Dan Brandesky

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Re: JTR Growler Subs
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2007, 09:51:27 pm »

That's great to hear. I am definitely interested in these speakers and was wondering when someone was going to take the plunge and give us a review. Now the only problem is that I probably cannot afford these subs, at least not for a while... Crying or Very Sad . Right now I'm still trying to negotiate my way into getting some monitors. Oh well.

-Dan
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Tony "T" Tissot

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Re: JTR Growler Subs
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2007, 10:30:14 pm »

Mike -

Thanks for the mini-review.

(This may be a bit of a silly question - and the arrangement would violate the "rule" of mixing horn and vented together):

Did you ever get a chance to run your rig with the growlers and your "old" (assuming you had vented cabs) subs running at the same time?

I am looking at 2 to 4 of these as well just for an aux-fed channel, and have not had the opportunity for a good listen.  (although that part does not frighten me, as I bought what has proven over 3 years to be a superbly perfect ISP 4-way rig without the luxury of an in-depth listen in advance).

I am consciously trying to build a low-bass "power alley" down the center for the mid-sized outdoor festivals I do.
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Jeff Permanian

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Re: JTR Growler Subs
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2007, 01:29:46 am »

There are several problems with mixing subs that would consume lots of processing power and time caliberating. The two easiest things to try are:
1)group the horn subs in the center and position the vented subs on the sides.
2)group the horn subs in the center and the vented subs about 6ft away either side.
Both will create a power alley however will probably cause interference.
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Mike Christy

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Re: JTR Growler Subs
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2007, 05:25:39 am »

No, I never had the chance to mix both cabs at the same time. I sold my old cabs to help finance the JTRs. Ive studied and read so much about the negative effects of mixing different speakers types (like Jeffs states) that I never considered it. These subs were several magnitudes of upgrade, IMHO.
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Pisces Sound
Seacoast New Hampshire
Southern Maine

Tim McCulloch

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Re: JTR Growler Subs
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2007, 01:52:23 pm »

Mike-

I heard the Growlers at the NYC Sub Shootout in Jan, and was very impressed.  Elliot Thompson and I both smiled at the listening tests and called it "musical."  It also went lower, louder, than we expected.  It took full power and continued to run.  It's small and light.  We also called it the "sleeper" of the Shootout.

Glad to hear you're happy with your Growlers.  Go ahead, make plans to buy another pair.  And ask Jeff about his 3 way top box, too... Smile


Tim Mc
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Steve Hurt

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Re: JTR Growler Subs
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2007, 01:10:17 am »

What were your old subs?

Thinking about UCS1's

Have any idea how they would compare to the growlers?

<edit spel-chek>
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Mike Christy

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Re: JTR Growler Subs
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2007, 12:06:50 pm »

Steve,

I looked very closely at the UCS1s, the LS808s, the LA400s, the LS1008s, the Bill Fitz designs, I tried to investigate all cabinets in my price, performance and "size" range. I corresponded with members of PSW, read reviews, emailed with many end sellers of subs, and the JTRs fit my needs more than the others, on paper. It wasn't until I powered them up did I know that I had made a good decision.

With that said, the UCS1s may fit your application, but my observations on them (others opinions) are they are not as loud as other designs. And I am seeing used ones available now, I don't know what that means. Everyone says they go low, 37Hz, but I understand that you hear the harmonics just as much, so that one spec was not enough to sell me on them. This is just my opinion, and feelings. Yours may be different. Ive never heard a UCS1, they may be killer, I don't know.

I previously had 4 18" EV "subs", bandpass boxes. Fine for DJing work, but not rock or hiphop. They did fine by me, but the JTRs made so much more sense for me.

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Pisces Sound
Seacoast New Hampshire
Southern Maine

Steve Hurt

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Re: JTR Growler Subs
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2007, 01:58:27 pm »

Mike, thanks.  That's very interesting info to me.

I'm using EV band pass subs (S-181's), but onlyt 2 of them   Shocked .  

Check your PM's if you have a moment!
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Steve Hurt

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Re: JTR Growler Subs
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2007, 03:53:12 am »

Talked to Jeff at JTR and he's bringing a pair down to Indy for me to hear next week.  I can't wait!

<edit - Schpellink>
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