ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 8   Go Down

Author Topic: My first ADRaudio speaker gig  (Read 42605 times)

Aaron McQueen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 608
EONA ADRaudio in Church
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2007, 01:36:31 pm »

Hopefully it is ok if piggy back on this thread as well.  We have been using the original Road Test demo system in our church for about a month now (it's going back to Jim B. this week  Sad ).  The setup consisted of a Yamaha MG32/14FX, an Aphex quad compressor, all Sennheiser mics and wireless, and the ASI 23 system integrator was used as a volume control and an added crossover for the subs.  The system was run as full range, and not aux fed.  We ran everything off a single 20A circuit.

We placed the U103's on stands on either side of the stage.  We initially had them on the floor, but our cheap speakers stands made  them a little shaky so we moved them to the stage and shorted the stands which gave us a little more height as well.  The subs were placed just wide of the U103's between the altar in the stage.  They were out of sight and out of mind which is the way we like it.  We wanted to couple the subs but with steps down the middle that wasn't possible so they were set on either side, which did cause some power alley issues, but it was not that bad.

Here are some pictures of the setup:
http://www.laurelfirstassembly.org/media/ADRaudio  

We used the system a total of six times a week with 4 services and 2 practices each week.  During a normal service we never hit the clip lights and we were running the tops about 3dB down and the subs about 6dB down.  One sub more centrally located would have been fine for this room.

First impressions were WOW!  It sounded great.  The tops and subs combined well.  The were very clear and smooth sounding.  After listening to some music through them for a while I found that they were a little harsh in the upper range.  After discussing it with Bennett, and he did some tests of his own, he and Alex sent me a modification to the PEQ board.  I did the mod and it resulted in smoother highs and better mid range punch.  The clarity of the system allowed us to run the system a little hotter then we normally run things, and most did not realize any change in perceived loudness.

As I noted in another post, I think the star of the system is the monitors.  They are very nice sounding.  They are lightweight, go low, get loud, have good wide coverage, and have great detail. My  opinion of the monitors could be biased as I spent most of time behind the monitors, playing bass. The subs are a close second with good weight and a really solid low end, that easily produced my low B on my 5 string.

This past weekend we took the system to a three day youth retreat (i'll post pictures tonight).  It worked out great.  This setup was a Yamaha 01V96, mics etc, and the ADRaudio system.  Here we coupled the subs under the large screen.  This was a group of about 200.  There were 4 services over the 3 days, but the ADR's were basically running the entire time between services.  The limit lights were barely flashing on the mains and there was plenty of headroom left.  The subs performed much better coupled and we kept having to dial them back.  The first night we ran full range.  The room had tons of echo, and the vocals were a little muddy.  We switched to Aux fed subs, which the ASI 23 allows for and that helped clean things up a bit.  The kick drum had a D6 on it and it sounded incredible through the 2 ATH 118's.

Overall we were rather impressed with ADRaudio system.  Thanks to Bennett and Alex for letting us use the system.  It allowed us to play better and allowed our congregation to hear what good sound can be.  It has prompted some new purchases and a new attitude toward quality sound in our church.  Hopefully I was able to proved needed feedback to Bennett and Alex.
Logged

Michael 'Bink' Knowles

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4279
    • http://www.binkster.net/index.shtml
Re: EONA ADRaudio in Church
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2007, 01:50:31 pm »

Quote:

...After listening to some music through them for a while I found that they were a little harsh in the upper range.  After discussing it with Bennett, and he did some tests of his own, he and Alex sent me a modification to the PEQ board.  I did the mod and it resulted in smoother highs and better mid range punch...


The way I heard it, the mod you performed wasn't exactly a product modification, it was an early production run QC burp that you corrected. Now that your tops are 'modded' they are actually returned to 'standard.'

Glad to hear your demonstration of quality audio prompted the venue budget to open up a little. Too bad it didn't open up a lot.  Razz

-Bink
Logged
Michael 'Bink' Knowles
www.binkster.net

Ales Dravinec 'Alex'

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 727
    • http://www.adraudio.com
Re: EONA ADRaudio in Church
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2007, 03:00:47 pm »

Michael 'Bink' Knowles wrote on Tue, 27 February 2007 18:50

...The way I heard it, the mod you performed wasn't exactly a product modification, it was an early production run QC burp that you corrected. Now that your tops are 'modded' they are actually returned to 'standard.'...

-Bink


Thanks Bink, I always liked your choice of appropriate words.
And yes, two mods needed to be performed on Aaron's system : one was 'simple' production burp correction, and the second one was removing of HF driver's signature peak in 14 to 15K area. First one was a necessity, second one was a matter of decision and field showed that it was the right one.

Thank you Aaron to perform this for us. The system you use was the first ever sent to US, so after extensive field use record showed, that few 'mild' corrections were in order.

At this point I'd like to thank also Jim Bowersox and Brian Bolly for their efforts and trust !


index.php/fa/8159/0/
image :courtesy of Brian Bolly

Alex

...yes, both Aaron and Bink now have equivalent U103s, so the discussion is about the same speaker.  Razz
Logged
Ales Dravinec
R&D manager, owner
ADRaudio
Slovenia

'There's no replacement for displacement' Carroll Shelby (Jim Bowersox, Tim McCulloch)
'Put speakers up in the air, where they belong' Bill Hanley

Ales Dravinec 'Alex'

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 727
    • http://www.adraudio.com
Re: EONA ADRaudio in Church
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2007, 03:12:47 pm »

Aaron !

What's there to say...Audrey is an angel !

index.php/fa/8160/0/

Alex
Logged
Ales Dravinec
R&D manager, owner
ADRaudio
Slovenia

'There's no replacement for displacement' Carroll Shelby (Jim Bowersox, Tim McCulloch)
'Put speakers up in the air, where they belong' Bill Hanley

Lee Brenkman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2062
Re: Grampa's Excellent Adventure - ADRaudio Road Test
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2007, 01:04:52 am »

This adventure started with me meeting Bink in the parking lot of the Veterans Building near Lake Merritt in Oakland late at night after Mike Pyle's demo ot the Speakers.  We succesfully put two tops  two  wedges and one sub into my car.

My apologies for taking so long to write this up and further regrets that I can't spice up my report with a bunch of nice pictures like Bink does.

But now, weeks in the making welcome to...

"Grampa's Truly  Excellent Adventure with the ADRaudio package"  or "Back to High School"

My test drive with the ADRaudio speakers originally intended to be three very different shows collapsed into one show over two days when the Venezuelan Jazz Singer got sick and the Chinese Pipa player and her ensemble canceled their tour.

So it was down to a benefit performance in an circa 1933 high school auditorium with cabaret singer Debbie Decoudreaux  

http://www.debbiedecoudreax.com.

I was originally called about this show by old friend and colleague Brian Connoly, who among his other jobs, does sound for the San Francisco version or Teatro Zinzanni.

http://\love.zinzanni.org/

Debbie, who has done a couple of runs as "Madame Zinzanni" in that show had been asked to do a benefit concert for her old high school in the Oakland hills and asked Brian to make sure the sound was right.

Brian called me asking if I was willing to help out not knowing that my wife, known hereabouts as "Mrs. Grampa" not only was a graduate of the same school, but was in the same graduating class as Debbie.

So how could I refuse?

First technical note.  My wife's yearbook from that year shows the auditorium with a pair of University column speakers.  They are still there :-0!  Although the amplifier has been upgraded to a TOA 900 series mixer/amp sometime in the last 37 years.

Brian's original plan was to bring in a pair of Yorkville TX3 speakers for main FOH but when the U 103s became available I suggested that we use them instead.

Although most of the band was locally based SF Area musicians, Debbie's collaborator/pianist/conductor from New York was coming out for the show and she wanted to rehearse the day before the concert.   Brian was committed to another job so on Wednesday I loaded up the trusty Honda Accord and headed up the hill to the school.

Brian and I decided that I would take the ADRaudio rig for the rehearsal day and he would bring in  a snake, some more monitors and IF I decided that it was needed the ATA 118 sub in his van the next day.

Yes, all both of the U 103s and both of the M 1225 wedges fit in the trunk of a 2000 Honda.  The mike and speaker stands rode in their bags in the foot well of the back seat, the Allen and Heath MixWiz and the small rack with my dbx Driverack480 and the all important Rock and Roller cart rode on the back seat.  The microphones, duffle bag of cables and my "everything else" backpack rode on the front passenger seat.

Upon arrival at the school I found that the "easy" load in was up six stairs to the front doors and then up 14 more stairs to the hallway at the front of the auditorium.  

The only elevator on site is in the convent and is reached by driving further up the hill into the school yard, through the cafeteria into the convent.  

I decided, given the amount of time before the desired rehearsal to just carry everything up the stairs.  The U 103s are not light but the handles are in a good place balance wise so it wasn't all THAT hard.  The M 1225s are nicely light and balanced.  

The auditorium itself seats about 400 people on the main floor and another 100 or so in the balcony which wasn?t going to be used for this show.  It's walls are either granite, or concrete nicely finished to look like granite and was live, but not painfully so.  The seats were unupholstered wood, so I knew that there would be a lot of "mellowing out" acoustically when bodies filled those seats.

The setup on stage was a nice BIG Baldwin grand piano center stage with the drummer on a tall riser upstage, the bassist far stage right behind the pianists bench and the guitarist/accordion player and multi reed player stage left of the piano.

Behind the seated guitarist and the sax player was a three level choir riser for the student vocal ensemble that would join in on two or three selections.

So I went to work setting up the "rehearsal PA the U 103s went on Ulitmate tripods on the down stage corners  theM 1225s were spaced about 3 feet apart on the down stage edge.

The available AC power consisted of the one outlet under the above mentioned TOA mixer/amp and another all the way upstage left under a workbench.   Not what Dave would call "Varsity" but happily well enough grounded to power all four EONA powered boxes for this show along with the small guitar, bass and accordion amps.

I put the mixer and the 480 in front of the stage near the stage left stairs.  

I miked the piano with a pair of Sennheiser MD504s on Mic Eze clamps.  Not my first choice but something I"ve found works well when the lid must be fully closed on the piano for any number of reasons.   Here it was for sight lines to the drummer and to provide an ample table for a number of props and other items used in the show.

The sax got a Shure Beta 57a, the guitar amp an E609, and the accordion and bass went direct.   The star vocal was a Shure UHF with a Beta 58 capsule and the pianist got a Sennheiser 835 for his vocal mic.

After determining that theU 103 mains would be more than enough as house sound for the next evening's concert I turned the stage left box around so that the guitarist, saxophonist and drummer could hear the vocals better.    I assured them that more monitors would be coming the next day.

I also reassured the choral ensemble that there would indeed be microphones over them on the show day.

I also concluded that the drums would need very little reinforcement for this cabaret level performance and that the subs would not be a good idea.  This was definitely NOT rock 'n roll.

The next day Brian and I met  up half past noon to finish setting up.  He brought his brother Tom to help and since we had more time than I had the previous day and even more gear we took the "long way around" to that elevator in the convent.  It's a SMALL, OLD elevator so it meant multiple trips up to "auditorium level" but it beat the stairs.

To what I had loaded in the previous day we added Brian's outboard rack to replace my dbx driverack, tour Yorkville E10 wedges for the pianist, bassist,  guitarist and saxophonist and a Mackie SRM450 for the drummer.  A snake got Brian to a FOH position in the first "wheelchair pull" of seats halfway back on the left side of the auditorium.  

We added an AKG D112 on the kick and a Shure SM81 over the drums "just in case", an additional piano mike - AKG 451- and put a pair of Neumann KM84s on TALL K&M stands over the choir risers.

We had to be done by 3 pm so that the school orchestra could do their regular rehearsal on the floor in front of the stage, but since the call back for the musicians wasn?t until 6 pm we went out for a nice lunch.

Back to the venue before 5 we rung things out and got ready for the sound check.  I'd like to report some drama, but the biggest issue was Brian convincing the star that she didn?t need the foam windscreen she had requested and that  she really could work right on the mike if she wanted to.  We also fiddled with the positioning of the choir mikes.  Probably should have had more than two, but space was tight up there and we only had a 16 channel mixer to work with.

Now to the review...

The U 103s effortlessly put out more than enough quality audio to please nearly 400 alumni and supporters who heard a pretty dynamic show.  They sounded sweet at low volumes on the ballads and did not sound strained or distorted in any way on the up tempo ?belters?.  Mighty impressive for boxes that small.  From the back of the auditorium they looked like shoe boxes on sticks, but they filled the room.

We even put the drums in there more than we thought.

Debbie, and Brian and I were all impressed with the M 1225 monitors.  The only "tech note"  here is that the plastic feet slide around REAL easily on nicely polished hardwood stages.
Something a little more ?rubbery? might be more in order for the wedges.

Ales and Bennett, you have some very nice product there.

I'm sorry I couldn?t give the subs a workout with the Cajon at that Venezuelan singer's gig or hear how the whole rig reacted when fed a mix of jazz and traditional Chinese instruments.

And best of all my wife got to hang with her old classmate AND actually drink a glass of wine in the library of her own school.  

Any gig that makes the Mrs. willing to wait for me while I load out is a good one, eh?

Cheers,
Gramps


Logged
"I've lived through some terrible things in my life, some of which actually happened."
— Mark Twain

Michael 'Bink' Knowles

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4279
    • http://www.binkster.net/index.shtml
Re: Grampa's Excellent Adventure - ADRaudio Road Test
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2007, 10:53:16 am »

Nice gig, Lee. Quite the rainbow of gear with Yorkie, Mackie and ADRaudio boxes... and all those mics.

Did you happen to hear the old University columns? Just curious.  Twisted Evil

When Brian's rack replaced your DR480, what ended up being your house EQ? I bet that without subs there you didn't HPF the U103s--just let them run native.

Cheers -

-Bink
Logged
Michael 'Bink' Knowles
www.binkster.net

Bennett Prescott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8924
    • http://www.adraudio.com
Re: Grampa's Excellent Adventure - ADRaudio Road Test
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2007, 05:28:50 pm »

Lee Brenkman wrote on Sat, 17 March 2007 01:04

The only "tech note"  here is that the plastic feet slide around REAL easily on nicely polished hardwood stages. Something a little more rubbery might be more in order for the wedges.

Thanks for the review, Lee, glad it all went well!

The wedge feet issue is something we're well aware of, we've just been having trouble sourcing an appropriately hardy substance to put on the bottom of our boxes. Ales has found some vulcanized rubber feet that he thinks will work well, very hard but a little tacky. We'll be shipping Bink some replacement feet, they're easy to install.

Michael 'Bink' Knowles wrote on Sat, 17 March 2007 10:53

I bet that without subs there you didn't HPF the U103s--just let them run native.

That's what that 70hz HPF and limiters are for! I usually just LPF my subs and let the tops run low, unless I'm really going to be working the rig hard.
Logged
-- Bennett Prescott
Director of North American Sales
ADRaudio d.o.o.
Cell: (518) 488-7190

"Give me 6dB and I shall move the world." -Archimedes

Scott Waldy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 602
    • http://myweb.cableone.net/boisesound
Re: Grampa's Excellent Adventure - ADRaudio Road Test
« Reply #37 on: July 20, 2007, 01:39:55 pm »

After a lot of tense moments, damn FedEx peolpe fudged up the pickup, I finally received the ARDAudio Road Test rig.  I will be using it tomorrow evening for a Rock-a-Billy band out at a 4X4 rally.  

When I first talked to Bennett, my main concern is... will 2 ATA118s & 2 U103 do an out door show for about 500 ish.  I do not think this will be enough.  As I am not expected to do ROCK CONCERT LEVELS with this group I am reluctantly going to give it the ol' college try.

I will post back on Sunday night with PICS!

Wish me luck.
Logged
Scott W.

"Relax, We'll fix it in the mix....

"I think it takes alot more "SKILLS" to be a Dj than a Sound man." - J. Gop, 2007

Boise Sound Services

Aaron McQueen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 608
Re: Grampa's Excellent Adventure - ADRaudio Road Test
« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2007, 01:46:38 pm »

Couple the subs, get the U103 up high and then maybe use some front  fills.  I think you'll be surprised. Smile
Logged

Ales Dravinec 'Alex'

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 727
    • http://www.adraudio.com
Re: Grampa's Excellent Adventure - ADRaudio Road Test
« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2007, 05:12:01 pm »

Hey Scott !

Sorry to hear about the pickup mess-up.

Like Aaron said, couple the subs centered or on the side, which will provide you with the most of their capabilities.

Regarding U103s : Again like Aaron correctly suggested, lift them high enough. The only issue might be the needed coverage area : If you need to cover 'wider' than 'deeper' you should take into account, that horizontal pattern of 80-ish degrees can be limiting factor.

Scott Waldy wrote on Fri, 20 July 2007 18:39

Wish me luck.


You know well enough, that it's got nothing to do with luck.
You'll do OK (Just did a similar type of act as you will with exactly the same gear for 400 people without issues)

Keep us posted
Logged
Ales Dravinec
R&D manager, owner
ADRaudio
Slovenia

'There's no replacement for displacement' Carroll Shelby (Jim Bowersox, Tim McCulloch)
'Put speakers up in the air, where they belong' Bill Hanley
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 8   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.042 seconds with 18 queries.