ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 13   Go Down

Author Topic: NYC Subwoofer Shootout 2007  (Read 52780 times)

Scott Hibbard

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 381
Re: The Next Shootout - Part II
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2007, 10:08:06 am »

Grant,

Ho UCS1's at the event.  However, I will be placing an order very shortly for 6 of them and will post the results for everyone after the first workout with them.  In terms of the UCS1 keeping pace with the Danley TH-115, I think that's abitious...the TH-115 is a monster.

ScottH
Logged

Jeff Knorr - Cobra Sound

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 928
    • http://cobrasound.com
Re: NYC Subwoofer Shootout Results
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2007, 01:14:12 pm »

I could only make one day of the shootout but I am glad that I made the trip.  A big thanks to Paul (even though he sent me on a lovely detour of NYC last night), Mark (I was looking over his shoulder most of the day), and anyone else involved with putting this event together.

My first impressions of select cabinets:
The BassMaxx boxes definitely move some air.  It will be interesting to see the full test results but the Z-5000 seemed impressive to me.  The downsides are their expected cost and weight.

The Danley TH-215 definitely had more extension than the TH-115 but couldn't match the TH-115 for it's efficiency at higher frequencies.  I called and ordered more TH-115's today. Smile

The JTR box was definitely the sleeper of the pack and provided some serious low-end from a small and affordable package.

I wasn't as impressed with most of the bass reflex designs but we'll have to see what the rest of the pack says after the listening tests.

I should have some pictures of most of the contenders up later tonight.

Jeff
Logged
Cobra Sound
An authorized Allen&Heath, Ashly Audio, Audio-Technica, Audix, Da-Lite, Danley Sound Labs, FBT, Mackie, QSC Audio, RCF, Sabine, Sennheiser, Whirlwind, and Yorkville Sound dealer.

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9010
Re: The Next Shootout - Part II-Smokin'
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2007, 01:22:21 pm »

For those following at home, we have started releasing the magic smoke out of a couple of boxes.  As our hearing thresholds shift, well-stuff happens.

Lots more boxes to play with.  So far the Powersoft amplifiers are winning.  They used to throw Christians to the lions, now we are throwing loudspeakers to the sound dudes Laughing

More more-lots of fun.  Everybody gets up and watches the smoke come out.  Chedering in a sad kind of way, like days of old.
Logged
For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Tim McCulloch

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 0
Re: NYC Subwoofer Shootout Results- Wont you be my neighbor? ;)
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2007, 03:39:28 pm »

In the "gee, officer, we were just foolin' around" dept....

While playing with with Bassmaxx Triples, we were visited by an angry neighbor... from the 5th floor... across the street!

Vibrating his apartment thru the substrate of Manhattan streets, and more annoying than subways, trash trucks, and horn honking traffic.  Oddly, the recording studio 4 floors above Club Rebel weren't complaining.

Stay tuned!

Tim Mc
Logged
"Will you stand by me against the cold night, or are you afraid of the ice?" Crack The Sky

Evan Kirkendall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6824
    • http://www.evankirkendall.com
Re: NYC Subwoofer Shootout Results- Wont you be my neighbor? ;)
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2007, 03:55:02 pm »

Laughing Laughing

Thats almost as good as Jim B's LAB story.


Dont kill too much gear! Razz





Evan
Logged
Not all change is good change.

Tim McCulloch

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 0
Re: NYC Subwoofer Shootout Results- Wont you be my neighbor? ;)
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2007, 04:09:34 pm »

A last minute entry we were unable to test:
index.php/fa/7718/0/
We were thinking of you when this came in Wink

Tim Mc
Logged
"Will you stand by me against the cold night, or are you afraid of the ice?" Crack The Sky

The Guy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1111
Re: The Next Shootout - Part II
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2007, 04:17:46 pm »

Paul Bell wrote on Mon, 29 January 2007 22:50


The Lab Sub on hand is a modified version, shorter horn and open driver cavities. We all feel the original Lab Subs are a better box.




It's a shame that you couldn't have any real Lab subs there...I would've been happy to supply some....maybe next time.

Also, where can we see some information on the bassmaxx Z5000 or the JTR?  I think Bassmaxx is a contender for the "worst of the web" award!

-JB
Logged

Scott Hibbard

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 381
Re: NYC Subwoofer Shootout Results
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2007, 05:58:38 pm »

All - just got back from NYC and off to an appointment.  I took notes today, both objectivr and subjective.  I will post my notes by approx. 11 PM tonight.

In the meantime we all own Paul Bell a HUGE round of applause for his effort.  He is a class act and more importantly, a real nice guy.  Thanks also to Mark Seaton for driving TEF and to Bennett and his friends for supplying the amps/Lakes.  Thanks to Ivan Beaver for all his insights. It was nice to finally put a face to all the names on the forum.  

My observations coming later tonight. I hope everyone makes it home safely.

ScottH

Logged

Scott Hibbard

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 381
Re: NYC Subwoofer Shootout Results
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2007, 08:29:50 pm »

Ok guys, here are m notes on the subs that were part of the listening tests (Day 2), in the order we tested 'em.  Speakers such as the L'Acoustics SB218 weren't selected for Day 2 listening; not because they weren't worthy of furthering listening, but because we wanted to spend time with the speakers that were "newer".   Maybe that speaks volume for the SB218 since anyone in pro audio has probably heard them.  SPL measurements were taken from approx. 16 feet away.  Power came from Powersoft K10's.

<added> I failed to mention that each subwoofer was listened to (and tested) in pairs.  Some side by side, some stacked.  

Every single sub in the listening test was a worthy piece of professional equipment.  There wasn't a bad speaker in the bunch.  More interestingly, each speaker had its own sound.  I'll let some of the other post pics (maybe Jeff knorr - he had a nice camera) - my camera was "average" at best.  


Danley TH-115
- Capable of extreme SPL for a single driver box
- Went down to 30Hz but sounded best between 40Hz - 50Hz
- Very efficient & very responsive to transients
- HPF 25Hz, LPF 75Hz
- Saw peaks in excessive of 133db just above 40Hz
- Cabinets defy their size - arguably the best 15" horn-loaded sub available to date in a very manageable size
- Tom/Mike - Would like to see a foam backed grill to protect the driver from dust etc.

Danley TH-215
- Noticeably lower response that the TH-115, albeit not quite as efficient but hey we didn't care - we had tons of power on-hand.
- At approx. 16 feet, punch was simply amazing with the most notable output of any speaker between 30Hz and 50Hz.  We saw peaks over 135 db at 35Hz!!
- Very little sound coming from the rear of the speaker relative to the front
- A true large scale concert speaker in every way.  Nice size - not too small, not too large.  It would be a pleasure to move 12 of these for larger events (which is about all you would need!)
- HPF 20Hz, LPF 75Hz
- Tom/Mike - Just like the TH-115, I would like to see a foam backed grill on the front
- Not the overall loudest subwoofer in the group, but in my opinion the most musical, most controlled and enjoyable speaker in the group.  Its ability to produce 35Hz effortlessly added an element to listening most didn't have while remaining very tight and extremely responsive to transients.  
- An incredible subwoofer - simply amazing sound quality and output through its range.  

EMS-215
- Happiest between 45-55Hz but had usability down to 35Hz before drop-off
- Had a pleasant level of distortion when approaching peak levels - was never harsh on the ears
- HPF 35Hz, LPF 80Hz
- Greatly exceeded my expectation for a bandpass sub, substantial impact
- Didn't go as low as the TH-215's but did a good job keeping up with them between 50Hz - 70Hz
- Was the first speaker voice coil to go up in smoke - we pushed it a little to hard

EMS Quake
- Thunderous output from 35Hz - 70Hz, and like the Th-215, the Quake has its most significant output between 35Hz - 50Hz but I did notice a slight bump at 70Hz.
- Easily reached 135+ db at 55Hz
- HPF 25Hz, LPF 80Hz
- Not as controlled as others in the group and was a little slower to respond to transients but certainly not bad by any means
- Easily shook the room and everyone in it.  Was second only to the BassMaxx Trip X3 as the sub you "felt" the most.  Worthy of its name.
- Very large subwoofer, looked like an apartment sized refrigerator but despite it's size, was easy to move around

BassMaxx Z5000

- Had significant peaks between 40Hz through 70Hz
- 37Hz was about as low as she would go before drop off but had tons of punch around 40Hz - 50Hz.
- Very tight and responsive to transients
- Measured peaks in excessive of 137db at approx. 63Hz
- HPF 35Hz, LPF 80Hz
- Sub sounded best in the 40Hz - 60Hz region with very little audible distortion
- Absolutely no sound coming off the rear of the speaker.  I was able to have a normal conversation with Paul Bell while standing less than 1 foot behind it.  Very impressive for a non-cardoid subwoofer.
- Reasonably sized - you won't mistake this for a small cabinet but you also won't need a crew of 4 to lift it (unlike it's big brother the Trip X3)
- Great box

BassMaxx Trip X3
- If bass were a controlled substance, David Lee would have been arrested on the spot and thrown in the slammer w/o bail!  Simply stated, the Trip X3 walked away the "King of SPL".  Truly amazing output.  
- HPF 35Hz, LPF 80Hz with a -3b cut at 75Hz
- Trip was the first (and I believe only) speaker to cause the K10's to run into clipping.  I wonder how these would sound with an FP13000 on them?
- This speaker needs POWER.  If you've got anything less than 5000 watts per speaker cabinet, you're probably best served to look elsewhere or upgrading your amps.
- To give you an idea of the output, we measured peaks of 143db at approx. 16 feet at 60Hz while watching (literally) some of the furniture go for a stroll.
- Had very significant output at 35Hz (approx. 135db) very much like the TH-215 but didn't quite have the same "easy sound" as the TH-215 at 35Hz.
- This subwoofer was the cause of Paul Bell's hilarious announcement "…guys turn it down for a while. We received a complaint from someone of the 5th floor…FROM ACROSS THE STREET!"
- Absolutely massive in size.  Made the Quake look small.  

JTR Growler
- Extremely punchy and an amazing speaker - esp. when you consider it's size
- VERY compact subwoofer.  You could probably fit 4 of them in the back of a SMALL SUV with room to spare. If I recall correctly, two of these were smaller than one Quake by a decent margin.
- HPF 30Hz, LPF 80Hz
- Smooth response down to 40Hz and then fell off from there.
- Coupled very nicely
- Saw peaks around 128db at 65Hz with nice impact
- Speaker seemed happiest between 45Hz and 75Hz

Outline Subtech 218
- Measured 135db at approx. 55Hz
- Warm, full bass reproduction with some audible distortion associated with dual 18's but only upon reaching it's very limits
- Lots of bass at 35Hz and seemed happiest between 35Hz - 55 Hz.
- HPF 35Hz, LPF 82 Hz
- Slightly smaller than one would expect for a dual 18"
- Had nice covers that can remain in place during use

I wasn't able to stay for the full listening test of the EONA ATA 618HH.  I'll let the other share their thoughts here.  I was however, able to sit through the swept tests Mark Seaton ran and without seeing the actual numbers, it seemed pretty efficient and got loud around 45Hz.

I hope this was helpful to those who weren't able to attend.

ScottH
Logged

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9010
Re: NYC Subwoofer Shootout Results-Thanks Paul and Mark!
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2007, 10:59:45 pm »

I want to second the thanks to Paul Bell. I think it turned out very well, much better than what I suspected it would when I first saw the room. Laughing

He kept us feed and liquided (is that a word?) up and I think a good time was had by all.  A few slow downs (none had anything to do with Paul) in the measurement side of things (that happens when you try to do it right!).

I also want to thank Mark Seaton for "driving" the TEF.  We went through a lot of pains in order to try to get as accurate data as possible.  I haven't really looked at all of it yet, but his care and diligence to "Doing it right" is appreciated.

He has lots of stuff to put together and present to the LAB.

I also want to thank all the others that helped out providing amp power and dealing with all the odd/different connections that were presented by different cabinets.

Thanks to Bennett and his "work box" for providing all sorts of odd and ends to make it work.

If you ever get to NY, be sure to check out the Les Paul show-some excellent musicians he is working with and I think the girl bass player is simply having to much fun with the upright. Maybe it is because Les is a dirty ol man. We had a blast and "Fuzzy" with the fungus on his face even got a belly rub from Les Paul (You know who you are Laughing )

I had fun, but now I have to get back to the real job at hand and " screw around" for the next couple of weeks-those that were there know what I mean Smile .

Again, thanks to all for helping out and attending and making it a very positive event.

WHAT-HUGH?
Logged
For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 13   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.066 seconds with 19 queries.