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[Yngve Hoeyland]

I've been doing some work for a mid-sized PA hire company lately, mostly 3-600 seat venues. Usually flying top boxes and stacking subs. The systems are all amped up with Crown I-Techs (6k for subs, 4k for top boxes). I really like the sound of the VRX, at least as an alternative to small-scale stacked PA configurations.

But theres a problem which I have some trouble figuring out. The top boxes sound great, indoors and outdoors alike and with most kinds of music (I predominantly work with jazz/alternative bands on the VRX). The subs, however, are a different matter. I unvariably struggle to get any decent low-end definition from the VRX subs (VRX918S). We've tried stacking, amping, tuning and re-tuning in a number of ways but the boxes still garble-garble more than making music. This has especially been the case with acoustic basses which to me has always been a good indicator for low-end tightness in smaller systems. I suspect flying the subs may help, but unfortunately most indoor venues have too low ceilings to do that..

So the PA company is now looking to replace the VRX subs, they just don't know with what yet.
We tested the same setup only replacing the VRX subs with 20" Turbosound Floodlight subs which was a huge improvement (mind you the turbos are horn-loaded whereas the VRXs are not).


I'd be interested to hear your opinion on this, especially from those of you who have first-hand experience with the VRX series.

Are any of you VRX owners out there using non-VRX subs and what are your thoughts - I would really appreciate any input. Thanks.


Yngve Hoeyland
Freelance Engineer / Norway

[Michael Prasuhn]

Most of the providers that I work for that have VRX are using the QSC HPR181 under them. Take the wheels off the back and put it in a case and it works very well. 1 sub to 2 tops for any kind of corporate playback, and if you are doing a band and trying to make it thump, use 2 subs per 2 tops. It has a pole mount if you're into that, and has a built in crossover if you need it (although I've never used it).

One of the companies did an A/B test against an LR1 off of a PL6.0 and thought the HPR had more 'stuff' and retired their LR1s and uses the HPRs for small rigs and drum sub duty now.

-Mikey P

[Renard Hurtado]

Hi,

I have no experience with the VRX-sub, but I do own a couple of QSC-HPR0181W subs.  I must say that everyone I have rented this subs to were very very pleased.  These subs really sound good, very deep solid bass. When I decided to get a few the distributor told me "They are very much liked in Jamaiaca". Inmediately I knew I would like them too. Yes I am planning to get a few more. One more thing they limiter inside these boxes works perfectly.  Some DJ`s run them with the limiter engaged all night long so far no waisted transducers.  The HPR151W, has less low extensiob, but adds a solid punch.

I don`t think you can go wrong with these subs.

Renard Hurtado (from Curacao)

[Yngve Hoeyland]

Thanks Mikey,

My experiences with the QSC-HPR0181W? They work really well with slightly punchy stuff (i.e. loud corporate events, beat-based genres). For me, anyway...

What I need isn't really a sub that packs a lot of ooomph, but more like a natural extension of the tops - definition is more important than power. That's why I have been considering horn-loaded subs as they are generally more directional and have a "tighter" response.

I've thought of demoing the d&b Q-sub, anyone have experiences with these?

[Chris Hinds]

Yngve Hoeyland wrote on Mon, 01 January 2007 14:21

I've thought of demoing the d&b Q-sub, anyone have experiences with these?

Funny you should mention that, I was thinking it might be your answer.  I have found them to be very good as single 18s go, though me being me, I like the B2 dual 18 more.  The other ones that I really like are the L'Acoustics SB118 and SB218 - these also are very nice boxes in my opinion.  EAW's NT sub is pretty good too, very punchy being a dual 12" unit and it has all its amps and processing on board, saving you the cost of buying the processed amp (D&B) or the required processing for the L'Acoustics options.

Good luck on your search

Regards

Chris

[Yngve Hoeyland]

I was thinking of passives primarily, as the amp racks are already setup with Crown ITECH's - and it's good to be able to tune the whole racks using the crown software from FOH - i.e. I'd prefer not  having to deal with two sets of processors. Quite happy with the ITECH's..

I think the annoying bit is the fact that no boxes will be flyable together with the VRX tops besides the VRX subs - unless someone gets the welding kit out and gets creative..


Thanks for the input. We'll demo the Q-subs at some point, but also interested in trying out other boxes.

[Jens Droessler]

d&b subs are the complete oposite of what you're asking for. None of them is well defined or punchy. That's not what d&b does... If you like 'hornloaded bass sound'there won't be a real substitute. The problem is - I guess you know - you have to use them in multiples or use some 'special' designs that won't be tight as a bigger stack of 'usual' horns (still tighter and more defined than vented subs), like Tom Danleys TH115 or TH215.

[Yngve Hoeyland]

Mhm I see. I've got close to none experience with small db systems so thanks for the warning.

Like I mentioned in the original post we gave the PA a spin with four (1 sub per 2 tops) old Turbosound TSW218 subs (horns) and that worked surprisingly well. The TSW's would be a good substitute, but they are a little too bulky (usually these PA's get shifted around in smaller trucks so multiple smaller cabs is better, plus it also gives more setup flexibility). Besides we already have 16 TSW subs for the Turbo rig, and are looking for "something different".


Suggestions for any horn-loaded subs worth looking at? BTW no Danley dealers in Norway so don't get to demo them.

[Jens Droessler]

I know some products probably doing what you want. Unfortunately they all have no distributor in Norway....

[Yngve Hoeyland]

Still interesting to hear your suggestions though? I work in the UK  a fair bit too these days, and some US trips coming up this spring...

[Mike Pyle]

If you have an RCF distributor there, take a look at the Acustica S-4022. It's a dual 12" bandpass box, very punchy sound, and does have fly hardware built in. They will run well on 1500 - 1600 watts per cab @ 4ohms.

[Yngve Hoeyland]

I'll look into it. Thanks!

Any horn cab ideas come forward!

[Hasse Queisser]

There are plenty of good sounding horn subs out there, but very few (if any) are smaller than the Turbosounds you think are too big. I have Martin WSX subs that I'm very happy with, but again, small is one thing they're not.

[Halvor Kongerud]

Hello.

Have you tried the Turbosound TQ-425DP?
Its not too big and give a hell of a punch.
I have and use VRX and im wery pleased with the VRX sub, but if I need more punch I sometimes use TQ subs aswell.

Hvor i Norge er du fra Yngve??

Halvor

[Yngve Hoeyland]

Thanks. I'll look into it!

[Trond Oeyre]

Voss

[Yngve Hoeyland]

Hey Trond.

Hope you're enjoying your new rig.

...and happy newyears!

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