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[Charles Gervais]

Hi,

I work in a large club in Montreal (Canada) as a LightJockey. Quick setup listing:
8 MAC500
8 1220
4 ColorTrack 3
1 LARGE mirror ball
1 20' circle truss
4 10' trusses
1 LED wall
1 video projector.
Everything on Martin LJ 2

Overall, everything works quite fine, nights go well, everybody seems happy. Thing is, I'm quite perfectionnist and some little aspects are bugging me.

First, 3 of our 1220 are out of order. lamps are busted, and on the  5 others the color wheels are misaligned as always... For those that are still working, the light produced isnt very powerfull compared to the MAC500, so they arent usefull really. I got 2 options: try to save them, or try to sell them. Questions are: do you know any way to make some 1220 really punch? if not, do people still buy used 1220s? If yes, at what price range?

Other important thing, you might have noticed we don't have a haze/fog machine in the setup listing. We used to have one, but it broked and the managers don't want to get a new one... how lame, the light has no volume, the dancefloor is too bright, even during blackouts. I suspect money/budget to be the reason why they don't want to invest into a new fog machine. (with the salary I get it's not surprising...) Do you have an approximation  of the cost of a fog/haze machine initially and per month (maintenance,fluid), and which between fog and haze would be more efficient?

Thanks for your time,
Charles.
Here's some pics of the club.

[Jordan P.C. O'Neil]

1220s are notoriously troublesome, and hardly practical these days.
However, they still pack a monster lamp. If you can ensure that the optical components are clean, and the lamp/reflector assemblies are correctly aligned, they will still put out a fearsome white, and loaded with a selection of aerial (beam effect) gobos, in combination with the iris and prism, can achieve some nice effects.

Of course, you will need smoke/haze for this to be any use.

In a perfect world, you would get a proper hazer (pressure cracker) as they consume much less fluid (=much less residue) and produce a superior optical effect. And a good one is freaking expensive.

In terms of smoke, its not the size of your machine, but how you use it (assuming that you're not after 'drum n bass can't see two feet in front of you' smoke). A small, efficient smoke machine ie. Martin magnum, directed into the cold air supply to the room, will create a rapidly distributed haze effect with minimal clouding, and a good hang time. The trick is experimentation to find the best location. Depending on the volume of the room, and the airflow through it, you might need to modify it to fit a slightly larger bottle. You can buy super cheap small machines from mail order and electronics stores, but they tend to have a life expectancy of under a year in a club environment.

I have been in a very similar situation to you club/money wise, and my suggestion would be to find an excuse to rent a machine from a hire company to experiment with, and also remind the owners of what a difference it makes to the atmosphere. If you do private functions/special events (I notice the 'happy birthday Massimo' on the screen), then talk to the clients/guests of honor about this directly, reminding them that it will make their event  so much more special than the average night at the club, at a tiny additional cost to what they will already be paying for their night's entertainment. This is a great opportunity to try different machines, gauge what size you will need, and how much it will cost to run. A rental company ought to be very helpful, especially if there is a chance for them to sell a new machine and supply fluid to you.

My final piece of advice is: When buying a smoke machine, YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.
A more expensive, reputable name brand machine will give you better service and cost less in the long run than a 'made by monkeys in a shed' cheapie.

Best of luck
J

edit:
ps. Nice club, love the height. I think you may need a larger mirrorball though...

[Charles Gervais]

Thanks for the reply. I'll be sure to keep those advices in mind.

I have a 700W Eliminator in my bedroom I could try putting in the ventilation...

For the 1220, I just need to find some lift, since the techs didnt put chainlifters on the 1220s trusses... and apparently those are "quite" heavy

and ya, its one of the best clubs in town... "it has one of those light shows..."    the main room is indeed quite impressive

[Kit Hannah]

We too used to run a ton of 1220's, CMYR's and RPR's. They definately have the features and would not be bad in a permanent install (we sold ours to a church). They were very problematic for us, quarkey if you will. They are bright, but if you put them up next to a Mac 500, you really won't notice much difference in output because optics in fixtures these days are so much better. My vote is to sell them, although I don't know how muh they would go for in your neck of the woods.

Although inexpensive, the American DJ Water based hazers work pretty well for club type stuff, as they don't use nearly the fluid as, say, a Martin hazer. I do agree about the fog solution - you will use much less to achieve the same effect. For that I do recommend Martin.

[Jordan P.C. O'Neil]

Just as a pointer, you want to direct the smoke at the air outlet, rather than have the machine in it, lest the ducts collect condensed fluid, and rapidly rust out. Whoops, a lesson learned from my mistakes...

How do you normally access the truss to service the lights? I used to use a 1/2 ton chain block to get the 1020s in and out of the grid that they were in. Slow, but safe and secure.

[Charles Gervais]

Thanks again for the replies.

for getting to the truss, we usually climb up there and walk around the structure... the lighttech before me didnt like to clean the machines, so it wasnt a real problem. But ya I thought about renting a ton/halfton electric lifter to lower the fixed trusses with the 1220s on them.

I think I'll give them a good clean, and if they still not light up enough compared to the 500s set, I'll try to find some new club needing in some basic light setup.

For the fog, ya I was thinking that too, the fluid my kill the ventilation system if too condensed. Should I replace it here like it was before? fog machine in red part, blue arrow is the air pushing the fog cloud and spreading in the room.

[Jordan P.C. O'Neil]

 
Getting up and climbing on the rig seems rather dangerous, even in a harness (because you wouldn't without one....) it would be difficult to recover someone if they fell.

How high is the roof, or the truss level? Within reach of a ladder, or are we talking Genie/tall-o-scope?

The location for the smoke machine seems ideal, safe and accessible. If the slats on the outlet are adjustable, it is worth playing with those a little.

As for lowering the 1220s, my advice would be to stick with a manual hoist, and lower the lamps from the truss, rather than lowering the whole truss, provided that it will be stable with the weight of only one lamp on it. With the lamp horizontal, picking it up from the corner of its yoke should lift it gently off of its clamp. Manual hoists weigh less, and take a lot less time to set up and move than electric ones. Also simpler and safer than de-rigging a fixed truss.

Prior to dropping the lamps, get the information for tuning them, either from the company that supplied them, your local Martin dealer, or ask really nicely at http://www.martin.com/fORUM/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=14
(It is a forum for LightJockey users, but visited by some who can help with Martin hardware problems)

Fully coloured and goboed (?), the 1220s should still struggle against a mac500, but on white, with narrow iris, or sharp cones etc, they ought to pack a decent wallop.

There is no reason why at least four couldn't be done in a day, having two people to perform the raising/lowering operation.

Best Of Luck!

[Rob Blohm]

If you're already running into issues with accessing flown fixtures, I'd recommend against putting a fog machine up high right next to the vent. Consider that you'll either need to rig up a way for the machine to draw fluid from a container at ground level, or you'll need to be climbing up there every night to fill it up. And under heavy use you'd want to clean it at least once a month.

I'd go with the Martin ZR24/7 hazer. It's not a true cracker type hazer (as far as I know), but I think it's a nice compromise between a cracker and a cheap fog machine. For my uses, a gallon would last around 6-8 shows, when using the Martin Pro Haze liquid. You can also use regular fog fluid with this machine, which comes out much thicker...and for your uses it may be needed to counteract the ventillation system. But I've found that stuff gets used up a lot moe quickly, sometimes a 1/4 gallon a night. Most places that sell the stuff will sell you a 4 gallon case at a slight discount. For heavy use you could probably even buy multiple cases in bulk for less.

As far as cost of maintenance, it's really just a matter of time. It all depends on how much you used it. Once a month should suffice. But if your club is really dirty/dusty, or you find that fog output is dwindling before your monthly maintenance, you may want to do it a little more frequently.

[Charles Gervais]

hmm... that ZR24/7 looks quite hot... but its around Can$900.

I'll have to get some good arguments

[Jordan P.C. O'Neil]

Cigarette company sponsorship?
"Smoke brought to you by DuMaurier"  

[Rob Blohm]

Quote:

hmm... that ZR24/7 looks quite hot... but its around Can$900. I'll have to get some good arguments

Just rent it for a few nights, show your boss just what it can do, and how great the lights look with it. I had done lighting for quite a few bands before I got my hazer, and a lot of them came back after I got it and commented on how it looked 10 times better. I still consider it the best investment I ever made, and I'm glad I went with a pro quality one instead of a cheap Chauvet one that may have lasted a month.

[Martin Ø]

I have a LeMaitre Neutron XS hazer. Bought it used from a larger rental comp. in Norway. It works really well, and hardly uses any fluid. I would think it outputs what you need.

cost me about a $900, + fluid.

oh, btw, excuse my typos, I'm Norwegian

[Jordan P.C. O'Neil]

If you have a Neutron XS that works well, then you are VERY lucky. Tend to see many more of them in bits in repair shops, than out on jobs these days....

[Kit Hannah]

We run the 24/7's, they're great, but in a club atmosphere, you're going to go through a TON of fluid (like a gallon a day). There was one installed in a club here that ended up replacing it with an American DJ hazer because of the amount of fluid the martin ate up. And at an average price of $25ish for the martin haze fluid per gallon, that's going to cost you a lot of money in the long run. We'll go through at least a half gallon to a gallon on a standard 3 hour theater show with one of our 24/7's.

I know you had mentioned the smoke machine in the ventalation system, but you can also look at getting a pro Martin Smoke machine and putting a fan next to it, helps spread it out.