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Author Topic: OK this is going to get me in trouble  (Read 46941 times)

Andy Peters

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Re: OK this is going to get me in trouble
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2006, 04:56:02 pm »

Tom Young wrote on Fri, 08 December 2006 14:40

Bottom line: why shouldn't the folks who operate these sound systems (with what some consider to be "over the top" equipment) and the congregations they serve not experience the (widely considered to be) superior sound of a Midas console ? And isn't one of the several attributes of Midas consoles also their reliability ?

I really do not know, but perhaps some church folk feel that their facilities, including the sound system (and the sound quality delivered) should be better than what is provided for in the secular world. You know: "for the Glory of God".


The little I know of New Testament theology I learned from Pasolini's Vangelo secondo Matteo, Il, but Matthew 6:1 seems especially relevant here:

"Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven."

In other words, God isn't impressed by your Midas.  And we should all remember what happened to the King Midas of myth.

-a
Horses 1:1
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Rich Mullen

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Re: OK this is going to get me in trouble
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2006, 05:05:28 pm »

Doesn't get you in trouble with me.  The truth is I respect that line of thinking very much (and the courage to point it out).

I often do events for 501-C3's, etc...where they specifically point out that they DO NOT want it to even have the appearance of spending frivolously. Black drape only, no movers, a minimalist look to he entire event. These people understand the message that needs be conveyed from such an organization. It's must be about the message, not the messenger (per se). I believe that's important to covey in that line of work.

The BIG TIME corporate stuff we do is the other end of the spectrum...AND SHOULD BE!
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Kent Clasen

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Re: OK this is going to get me in trouble
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2006, 05:14:51 pm »

Hi Randy,

I would bet that Telex is using this church as a promotional site for demos etc.  I don't know the details, but I would bet it was still not cheap.  They are not alone in selling high end gear to churches.  On the other hand as Tom mentioned, there are many that are on the other extreme and are uneducated and spend so little that it turns people away from the church.

I know you are in an area that has been ravaged, so I know that this hits harder to you.  

As you said, there are many, many people that need help.

Most of us have running water that you can drink at home.  Over 1 billion people in this world don't! They would see you go over to a faucet to get a drink, and say, "WOW, that must be nice!".  Millions die each year as a result.  Maybe instead of that next XYZ that we HAVE to have we send some money to Africa to build a well that a few thousand people could use?  Or drop a few bucks in the salvation army bucket...or what about all the AIDS victims....
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Kent Clasen
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Shanne Flemming

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Re: OK this is going to get me in trouble
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2006, 05:15:30 pm »

Not to mention the church is Not-for-profit, meaning they don't need to pay Federal or State taxes, or real estate taxes. IRS is cracking down on non profits and reporting on 990's (tax return for non profits). Not sure without research what IRS code that the church's non profit status falls under, but end result there not paying taxes on the $'s. IRS started heavy scrutiny over tax exempt borrowing and wasting of capital spending using the tax exempt debt, as well as whether the non profit status of non profits should be challenged. Interesting to see if the employed clergy are taking a vow of poverty not requiring the payment of Social Security taxes as well.

If anyone is interested, if the Chrch's name and state was provided I can pull down and post their financial statements from the IRS filing. (This is public knowledge on guidestar). If the church is for profit, affording these toys, more power to them.

Shane Fleming
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Michael 'Bink' Knowles

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Re: OK this is going to get me in trouble
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2006, 05:46:06 pm »

Quote:

...The BIG TIME corporate stuff we do is the other end of the spectrum...


I did a corporate gig where they specifically wanted a low-cost look with lighting and staging. They wanted the appearance of economy. One simple video screen with no whiz-bang graphics. Audio elements and the video guts (projectors, switchers, cameras) were top of the line, though, no holds barred. Perfect balance, in other words...  Laughing

-Bink
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Randy Frierson

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Re: OK this is going to get me in trouble
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2006, 05:46:09 pm »

Well there are alot of interisting point of views and i think discussion is good and healthy..This has made me think and that is good.I still think it's almost criminal..it reminds of a chuch i did a concert in in jacksonville,fl..major affiliation with another church in dallas (I think) but we brought in a system where there was a absurb install that was done horribly. when i questioned it they said the manufacturer did the install or his rep????not sure all i know is they loaded this church up with alot of speakers and amps and they had delays at around 30 feet from the mains??????i came in with a fly of 7 nexo geo S per side and nailed the room and the balcony..the church sound guy was amazed as was most of the comments the audience made...It was just another case of abuse...I think waste is waste.. I don't blame telex..maybe the design group..I see alot of over the top design's that make little audio sense...maybe if audio guys were more involved than sales guys? I don't know. It's just there is so much need out there and this just seems so over the top..I guess I don't see a reason for someone getting a XL8 period..I know that the room size has nothing to do with console size, i know that clearly it's about inputs but if you analize this install it just seems as the church was taken advantage of and the members of that church..this has nothing to do w religion it just saddens me that so many are still suffering and this church should be focusing on God's mission and not there "Bently of a sound system"...I am seriously going to look deeper into this and insure that the members of this church are aware of what they have done..maybe there all gazillionaires, but still tonight someone in the Gulf coast is homeless, some disabled vet is starving..ther are much better uses of donated money..But it's just my opinion....I'm very sad   randy
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Randy Frierson

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Re: OK this is going to get me in trouble
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2006, 05:49:55 pm »

Westover church in greensboro, NC..please let me know..Randy
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Rich Mullen

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Re: OK this is going to get me in trouble
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2006, 05:55:44 pm »

I suspect most of these cases of overindulgence in technology come from well intentioned, but overreaching personnel at some church's. Solving problems that don't exist with expensive solutions that won't work. I don't suspect there's malice on most peoples minds, just a lack of education and common sense. PLUS, working by committee as many of these organizations do can cause a whole host of problems.

We use to do some install work, but gave it up for the good life in production ). I had seen many a case of the above type situations. It's very unfortunate as it can be just a horrible waste of resources that could be use for the mission at hand.

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Tony "T" Tissot

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Re: OK this is going to get me in trouble
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2006, 06:10:27 pm »

Quote:

I do agree completely that much of this is "keeping up with the Joneses".  


They could of bought a Venue and had money left over for 3,000 plane tickets to Jonestown Guyana!
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Clayton Luckie

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Re: OK this is going to get me in trouble
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2006, 06:28:44 pm »

Randy

As a church Tech Dir. I totally agree with you.  We have a 1000 seat room, and our A/V/L system isn't much to look at (or listen to).  We do our best with the gear we have, and nobody is walking out of the church because of bad sound (at least not that I know of!)

If someone came up to me and offered an XL8 or D5 Live, I would turn them down and make a counter offer.  Give me something in the M7CL to Venue range, and we can make other improvements with the rest of the money, or find a better place to use it (feeding people, healing people, you know... stuff that Jesus told us to do).  At first glance, compared with feeding or housing someone, spending money on anything at all seems like a waste.  But there is a balance, and the XL8 seems way off the scale.  I also did a double take when I saw that magazine.  I disagree with the use of that money, but I'm not going to write or call anyone about it.  I have to assume that they have either worked that out between them and God, or they aren't planning on doing so.  Either way, I think my comments would be greeted with the same response I give to the old ladies who tell me its too loud (as I look at my dB meter reading 85A).  I smile and say "Okay. Thanks!".

Keep your good heart about how you feel money should be spent in the church, and try your hardest to lead your church where you think it should go.  I don't know whether or not they would listen to your comments, but I know that a system like that does not happen unless it goes through the elders/leaders of the church.  The decision makers signed off on that system.  Telling the congregation might get them excited no matter what it cost, or what kind of board it is. After all, how much could a sound board cost, anyway?  a couple thousand?  I mean, its smaller than a car!  Smile

cl
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Re: OK this is going to get me in trouble
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2006, 06:28:44 pm »


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