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[Michael 'Bink' Knowles]

Interesting image, Raj. What was the voltage applied to the speakers? Did anybody capture the phase traces at the same time? Was an impulse captured? How far away was the microphone?

Yes, the SRX728 looks very, very smooth but with a chart in this format you won't see any of the ported design's inherent weaknesses--impulse smearing and greater phase change. Also, a chart like this won't ever show distortion harmonics.

-Bink

[Winston Gamble]

Evan Kirkendall wrote on Wed, 29 November 2006 21:23

The labs were blurring my vision 70' back and I was only hitting -20 on the PL9.0. People up front said they had that "Im going to throw up feeling" from the bass. If I would have had better tops at the gig and opened the labs up more the building wouldnt be standing. Evan

Is that really a good thing?

Liking the (only) 2 labs we have at my Church. Winston

[RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS]

Evan Kirkendall wrote on Wed, 29 November 2006 14:23

Ive never done a side by side comparison, but after hearing 4 labs rocking my usual venue 2 weeks ago Im pretty sure the labs would kill the 728's. Ive heard the 728's, and they are good up front, but dont seem to throw as far. The labs were blurring my vision 70' back and I was only hitting -20 on the PL9.0. People up front said they had that "Im going to throw up feeling" from the bass. If I would have had better tops at the gig and opened the labs up more the building wouldnt be standing. Evan

Just wait until you double your age and start losing your sight like us old folks (I'm not really very old but my sight really sucks now) and your won't want to blur your vision anymore.

[Raj Sookraj]

Evan Kirkendall wrote on Wed, 29 November 2006 21:23

The labs were blurring my vision 70' back and I was only hitting -20 on the PL9.0.

That's not an exaggeration!  My brother experienced the same blurriness (in front) when I sound checked our 4 Labs before a parade.  Other competitors brands at the parade include Sonic, homemade scoops and reflex subs, Dynacord, EV, Cerwin Vega, Mackie, JBL Yorkville, and EAW KF series (usually the "winners").  Almost all of the stage show setups I've been to use the EAW KF's. I have no doubt that the Labs will murder those EAW's.

The response chart I posted is from the 2006 shootout.  Check out prosoundshootout.com for more details.  It was taken 10 meters away with 1v applied.  Only response and impedance was measured.  Both cabs will be at the 2007 NY shootout for another comparison, possibly in more detail for you technical guys.

[Elliot Thompson]

The "blurring" that many of you are encountering is frequencies ranging from 60 - 55 Hertz. This is where most (If not all) bass horns offer greater efficiency over direct radiators.

Which is fine if your program peaks there. But, if your program peaks in the low 30's (34 - 29) you may be better off looking at a reflex if the horn can't take you down there.




Best Regards,

[Pascal Pincosy]

Elliot Thompson wrote on Sat, 02 December 2006 06:04

The "blurring" that many of you are encountering is frequencies ranging from 60 - 55 Hertz. This is where most (If not all) bass horns offer greater efficiency over direct radiators. Which is fine if your program peaks there. But, if your program peaks in the low 30's (34 - 29) you may be better off looking at a reflex if the horn can't take you down there.

According to the plot posted above, that's only slightly the case in the 40-50 Hz range. Maybe when you're discussing a LA400 or equivalent subs, that might be the case, but with the LAB sub, Pi Sub, or most of the Bassmaxx range, it will not be. Most of the well-designed modern horn subs will out-perform a direct radiator design down to 40Hz or below. And some by a wide margain...

[Tom Herr]

Moby
I wouldn't be concerned with the PLX's on the labhorns. I ran RMX2450's bridged one per labhorn for a long time, with no issues. Last year I picked up some PLX2402's and have been running them the same on labhorns with no issues. Have used them outdoors in the heat of the summer.

I did a comparison at a small outdoor event 2 years ago. 4 labhorns 2 driven with plx's the other 2 driven with RMX's. Hot humid summer day about 95 f. Material DJ Host with 5 Hip hop acts. Levels were pretty hot. I placed my hand on each amp occassionaly durring the event. The PLX's seemed to feel slightly cooler than the RMX's. All of the amps ran a little warm as expected but non of them were hot. Amps were in the same rack PLX's just above the RMX's.

Hope this helps.

[Elliot Thompson]

Pascal Pincosy wrote on Sat, 02 December 2006 08:10

Elliot Thompson wrote on Sat, 02 December 2006 06:04 The "blurring" that many of you are encountering is frequencies ranging from 60 - 55 Hertz. This is where most (If not all) bass horns offer greater efficiency over direct radiators. Which is fine if your program peaks there. But, if your program peaks in the low 30's (34 - 29) you may be better off looking at a reflex if the horn can't take you down there. According to the plot posted above, that's only slightly the case in the 40-50 Hz range. Maybe when you're discussing a LA400 or equivalent subs, that might be the case, but with the LAB sub, Pi Sub, or most of the Bassmaxx range, it will not be. Most of the well-designed modern horn subs will out-perform a direct radiator design down to 40Hz or below. And some by a wide margain...

I wasn't using the above plots as reference. All bass horns generally exceed bass reflex cabinets from 55 Hz and up in terms of SPL.

When we are talking about cabinets the size of Bassmaxx B Zeros Lab Subs, and so forth, we need to take the cabinet size into factor.

Using two reflex enclosures the size of Lab Subs, each housing  two McCauley 6174s and taking advantage of the low fs these woofers offer, they will go lower than two Lab Subs.

However, finding music material that will offer a lot of emphasis from 40 Hz down on a continuous basis is not an easy task. Not to mention, at those frequencies, there is no such thing as "Punchy Bass" which many are aiming for.

Best Regards,

[Tim Duffin]

and you also.

David Lee and I got into it a while back when he made the ridiculous claim that bassmaxx speakers have any chance in hell of being as loud or clean as a servodrive BT7.  You should look that entire discussion up-- I personally think that the open back horn subwoofer is a flawed design and will never be accepted by anyone who actually makes money in this business.  Horn subs are fine for hobbyists and people who don't care what their system looks like.  And for the record, yes-- it is far easier to fake good results with horn loaded subs with all kinds of neat tricks-- my favorite is calling horn loaded subs "musical"...just what in the hell does that mean?  Ill save you the trouble, it means: "This sub really isn't that loud to everybody else in the entire world who actually knows what they are talking about, so to come up with some way to sell it, I am going to appeal to all the audiophile nerds by creating some verbage which camoflages the flawed design and wasted efforts of everyone involved so as to avoid a direct comparison with better subs in the real world."


smile-- not everyone believes the BS about horns!

T

[John Chiara]

Tim Duffin wrote on Sat, 02 December 2006 22:03

and you also. David Lee and I got into it a while back when he made the ridiculous claim that bassmaxx speakers have any chance in hell of being as loud or clean as a servodrive BT7.  You should look that entire discussion up-- I personally think that the open back horn subwoofer is a flawed design and will never be accepted by anyone who actually makes money in this business.  Horn subs are fine for hobbyists and people who don't care what their system looks like.  And for the record, yes-- it is far easier to fake good results with horn loaded subs with all kinds of neat tricks-- my favorite is calling horn loaded subs "musical"...just what in the hell does that mean?  Ill save you the trouble, it means: "This sub really isn't that loud to everybody else in the entire world who actually knows what they are talking about, so to come up with some way to sell it, I am going to appeal to all the audiophile nerds by creating some verbage which camoflages the flawed design and wasted efforts of everyone involved so as to avoid a direct comparison with better subs in the real world." smile-- not everyone believes the BS about horns! T

Hmmm...intersting perspective. I would say that the term "musical" MAY refer to the lack of harmonics/distortion that many of us have spent most of our careers trying to EQ out of reflex subs. We all are used to hearing loud, distorted subs. Coming from 10 years of studio work with BAg End subs as a reference, I prefer horns for high level live work. I have used/built many a sub over the years but never been nearly as happy as I am with the Danley TH 115's I now have..and running on a fraction of the power of any relflex box I've used..YMMV

John