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Author Topic: Corn dogs and Kansas  (Read 2450 times)

Winston Gamble

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Corn dogs and Kansas
« on: September 13, 2006, 12:12:56 PM »

Went to the State Fair last night with my wife and a couple of her old high school friends to see Kansas. They were all huge fans (I was more of a Jethro Tull, Yes and Traffic kinda guy.) and we all enjoyed a fine performance with a mostly excellent mix and a very enthusiastic crowd. My only real complaints were, I felt the heavily distorted bass tone was over the top and the violin could have been up in the mix more especially on Song for America but I try to enjoy the show and not pick apart a mix. All I could confirm of the rig was a Yamaha M7CL at FOH with an EV line array. The mix was all there, but I wouldn't call it the clearest sounding show I've ever heard. Whether that was the boxes the system setup or the operator I couldn't say as that's the first time I've heard an EV array, but hey, we all loved the show and that's all that counts.

Afterwards as we were marveling at the idea of still touring after 32 years together and multiple platinum albums, the subject of money came up in relation to why they might want/need/have to still be on the road and what kind of money acts like that can get on the Fair type circuit. We understand it varies and we don't really care exactly what Kansas gets, just interested in what the ballpark fees are at that level of the journey up and then back down the live music roller coaster. My wife suggested "One of those sound nerds on the board your always reading must have an idea". I thought, "I resemble that remark" but here I am.
So, any body know?

Still tasting that yummy jumbo polish sausage corn dog, Winston.

Milt Hathaway

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Re: Corn dogs and Kansas
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2006, 01:41:02 PM »

Why wouldn't you want to spend time doing what you love to do with lifelong buddies. Sure, the other 23 hours of the day may suck sometimes, but for real musicians that hour on stage more than makes up for it.

I did a Kansas show a few years ago when they had just put out their symphony album, and were playing with local symphonies. That show ranks among the top 3 I've ever attended and/or worked. The crew was great, the band was very personable, and it was obvious that everyone loved what they did.

Speaking of people who certainly don't tour for the money: Marvin Hamlisch. He could just sit at home and roll in the piles of royalty money that's still flowing in, but he truly loves to perform, and loves everything about the rest of the day too. He's always a joy to work with, and he loves to chat with whomever is around, whether they be the promoter or just the lowly crew.

I also live for that hour or two of performance, even if I am stuck off to the side somewhere. I've even learned to enjoy the rest of the day also.
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Winston Gamble

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Re: Corn dogs and Kansas
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2006, 04:03:04 PM »

Milt Hathaway wrote on Wed, 13 September 2006 18:41

Why wouldn't you want to spend time doing what you love to do with lifelong buddies. Sure, the other 23 hours of the day may suck sometimes, but for real musicians that hour on stage more than makes up for it.

I did a Kansas show a few years ago when they had just put out their symphony album, and were playing with local symphonies. That show ranks among the top 3 I've ever attended and/or worked. The crew was great, the band was very personable, and it was obvious that everyone loved what they did.

Speaking of people who certainly don't tour for the money: Marvin Hamlisch. He could just sit at home and roll in the piles of royalty money that's still flowing in, but he truly loves to perform, and loves everything about the rest of the day too. He's always a joy to work with, and he loves to chat with whomever is around, whether they be the promoter or just the lowly crew.

I also live for that hour or two of performance, even if I am stuck off to the side somewhere. I've even learned to enjoy the rest of the day also.


I'm all about living your life now and loving what you do if not doing what you love.
I mean no insult to Kansas and it was obvious by their performance that they enjoy their craft and appreciated the energy received from the crowd. I as well totally enjoy my admittedly low level of involvement in the industry hauling around gear and mixing for my wife's band once I get past the butterflies of anticipation before each gig.
I make Jewelry for my living, and love the benefits of working for myself and being creative, but along about the fourth week of nose to the grindstone hours getting ready for an upcoming show, there's no denying the fact that what I usually enjoy has become just a job that needs to be done and it needs to be done for the money.... Admittedly better than having to do what I don't enjoy just for the money like many people, but still, there is a reason we call it work and performers get to the point where it is work as well. I know there are performers who live for road and stage yet I can't imagine that the majority  of 50 year old once were huge acts book this schedule of touring away from home and family purely for the love of performing. A command performance at Carnegie Hall, every few years a Reunion Tour or even something like playing Corporate party gigs makes sense to me, but at some point, another bus ride just can't be as much fun as it once was.

2006 KANSAS TOUR DATES
USA - August 2006
Date Day City State Venue
8/1/06 Tues Mason MI Fair
8/3/06 Thur Baltimore MD Rams Head
8/5/06 Sat Anderson SC Fair
8/7/06 Mon New York  NY BB King's  
8/9/06 Wed Alexandria VA The Birchmere
8/10/06 Thur Bethleham  PA Festival
8/11/06 Fri Cumberland MD Fair
8/12/06 Sat Malone NY Fair
8/18/06 Fri Red Bank  NJ Count Basie Theater  
8/19/06 Sat Atlantic City  NJ Trump
8/25/06 Fri Oklahoma City  OK Zoo Amphitheater  
8/26/06 Sat Orlando  FL Festival
USA - September 2006
Date Day City State Venue
9/1/06 Fri Virginia Bch VA Festival
9/4/06 Mon Lincoln  NE Fair
9/8/06 Fri Anaheim CA The Grove Theater  
9/10/06 Sun Murphys CA Iron Stone Amphitheater  
9/12/06 Tue Salt Lake City  UT State Fair  
9/22/06 Fri Bakersfield  CA Fair  
9/23/06 Sat Las Vegas  NV Station  
9/27/06 Wed Austin  TX One World Theater  
USA - October 2006
Date Day City State Venue
10/6/06 Sat Iowa City  IA University of Iowa  
10/7/06 Sat Destin FL Morgan Sports Complex  
10/13/06 Sat South Padre Island  TX Festival
10/14/06 Sat Houston TX Arrowfest
10/18/06 Wed Ridgefield CT Playhouse Theater  
10/21/06 Sat Reading PA Sovereign PAC  
USA - November 2006
Date Day City State Venue
11/3/06 Fri St. Petersburg  FL Janus Landing  
11/4/06 Sat Homestead  FL Festival
11/11/06 Sat Kansas City  MO Ameristar  
11/16/06 Thur Erie  PA Warner Theater  
11/17/06 Fri Burgettstown  PA Pepsi Cola Road House  
11/18/06 Sat Glenside  PA Keswick Theater  

Check back soon for updates to the KANSAS Tour Dates
We will post them as soon as they become available.

Now booking that level of touring because like many people they made poor financial decisions in their past and blew wads of money on toys or up their nose rather than investing it makes plenty of sense to me. Hence my wondering about just what the economics of the State Fair level gig circuit are. Heck I still have to work for money, being a Rock star can't be cheap maybe they do to.

If we knew then, what we know now, youth wouldn't be wasted on the young.  Winston


Jack Arnott

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Re: Corn dogs and Kansas
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2006, 10:36:16 PM »

Winston Gamble wrote on Wed, 13 September 2006 10:12


Afterwards as we were marveling at the idea of still touring after 32 years together and multiple platinum albums, the subject of money came up in relation to why they might want/need/have to still be on the road and what kind of money acts like that can get on the Fair type circuit.
Still tasting that yummy jumbo polish sausage corn dog, Winston.


Hello Winston,
When I worked with them they got ~$25,000, + $2,200 for production. Toto was about $27,500 + $4,000 for production.
Both were with routing, so for a state fair they might get more as a one off. But this should be ballpark.
So even after travel, crew, management, etc. its still not a bad paycheck. And they are all getting a slice of the pie. Don't know their exact arrangements, but it must be better than most solo star shows.
Like some of the bigger groups out of Nashville for example. One person from around here who is a pilot was out of work for a while, strike or some such thing. Picked up with one of the bigger acts from there, but made only $350/night. Seems there is a line of sidemen that will play for that price, and no need to pay more. Some of the local pickers that are on tour with low budget Bluegrass bands make more than that.
My $.02 + rolaids if you still need some.

Regards, Jack
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Jake Scudder

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Re: Corn dogs and Kansas
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2006, 05:04:31 PM »

There have been many incarnations of Kansas over the years.  Many members have come and gone (and come back and left again, and so on). Most notably:  Kerry Livgren and Robby Steinhardt..  My dad cut my teeth on Kansas back in the day (I'm 28).  A truly underrated band in my opinion, especially live.  

The "Kansas" that everyone is familiar with (Point of Know Return, etc.) was actually the third lineup.  It's not surprising that they still go on.  

Also, I'm not sure how the deals were structured and who owns the publishing but most of the big hits were written by Kerry Livgren so I would guess most of the mailbox money goes to him.

Jake
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Scott Shaw

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Re: Corn dogs and Kansas
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2006, 06:13:21 PM »

Back in the day, I would get stoned and listen to "Leftoverture". Still the best Kansas album in my opinion.

Don't tell my Mom & Dad!

Scott

Michael 'Bink' Knowles

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Re: Corn dogs and Kansas
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2006, 07:02:14 PM »

Quote:

...Still the best Kansas album in my opinion.


Cool

I charted out the time changes on Magnum Opus as a project for my music class and because I wanted to. Those guys took it all over the place.  Very Happy

-Bink
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Dan Kok

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Re: Corn dogs and Kansas
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2006, 07:43:39 PM »

Winston Gamble wrote on Wed, 13 September 2006 11:12


So, any body know?

Still tasting that yummy jumbo polish sausage corn dog, Winston.


With no promises as to accuracy, go to this web site:
http://www.eventresourcespresents.com/listframe.cfm
and type Kansas into the blank.  It says $40K with an "A" chance of accepting offers.

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Dan
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Rob Burgess

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Re: Corn dogs and Kansas
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2006, 08:28:04 PM »

Michael 'Bink' Knowles wrote on Mon, 18 September 2006 19:02

I charted out the time changes on Magnum Opus as a project for my music class and because I wanted to. Those guys took it all over the place.  Very Happy



And they did it with a drummer who doesn't read music.  Impressive.

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Rob
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Jake Scudder

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Re: Corn dogs and Kansas
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2006, 09:56:52 PM »

Rob Burgess wrote on Mon, 18 September 2006 18:28

Michael 'Bink' Knowles wrote on Mon, 18 September 2006 19:02

I charted out the time changes on Magnum Opus as a project for my music class and because I wanted to. Those guys took it all over the place.  Very Happy



And they did it with a drummer who doesn't read music.  Impressive.

--
Rob



Granted, there are the Berkley College of Music virtuosos like Portnoy but I doubt that many rock drummers need to look at a chart to pull of an odd metered arrangement.

When I was in high school (early-mid 90's) I played bass in a little prog-rock act with meters all over the place.  Most of our audiences didn't get it and it was nearly impossible to get paying gigs without stuff people could dance to but it was a lot of fun while it lasted.  One night I saw a girl trying to dance to one of the songs.  6/8 with a bar of 7/8 thrown in at the end of each phrase.  Then a 5/4 bridge where the drummer would alternate between a pattern of "4 bars of 5" and "5 bars of 4".  I nearly lost it trying to watch her dance to it.

The best part is that all of us could read music except the guitar player who was/is by far the best and most accomplished musician of the group.  If any of you are doing the Frampton shows right now he's the one on the right playing for the opener.

Jake
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Corn dogs and Kansas
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2006, 11:27:14 PM »

Kerry is currently living in the Topeka, Kansas area.  With 2 replacements, he has re-formed the original 1971 KANSAS as Proto Kaw.  He's very active as a producer, arranger, and composer as well.

We've done several show with Proto Kaw and I always look forward to them.  It's nice to hear "real" music in a world full of lip-syncs and monotone 'melodies.'

Tim Mc
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