ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 13   Go Down

Author Topic: TT24 - Part 2  (Read 49411 times)

Geoff Thistlethwaite

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 36
Re: TT24
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2006, 09:26:59 pm »

Lee Jacobson wrote on Fri, 11 August 2006 10:42

Clayton,

 I'll check that out, thanx! There is an addendum to the manual, for the latest version. The Road Test desk is V1.3, Build 60, so it should be the latest version. Headed over to mackie.com right now to have a look....


Lee,
The latest version is V1.30, build 68, and you should definately load up the latest version.
I've had some difficulties with the board see:
http://forums.mackie.com/scripts/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=ge t_topic;f=5;t=000701
but tech support was very quick to send me a 2nd then a 3rd board to get me rolling again...

Geoffthis
Logged

Lee Jacobson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 397
    • http://www.brevardsoundsystems.com
Re: TT24 - Part 2
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2006, 08:30:34 pm »

OK, I found the user layer. It is easy as pie to assign things too, and works as advertised. Push both the "analog" and "digital" buttons on the front, and you are in the user layer. The TT24 is MUCH faster/easier to navigate than the 01v96, which I have had for about a year now. Of course, that was Mackie's goal with the TT, easy/fast to use. There are still a few I'd prefer to have work in a "more yamaha" way, but those are not deal breakers. Things I really like on the TT24 include the V-pot, the swept HPF that does not burn a band of EQ (even though it lacks frequency indication on the screen), the flex groups, and more. For example, the V-pot. This pot, located in the typical "pan pot" location on each of the 24 strips, serves MANY functions. It can be a pan pot, it can be the digital trim pot, it can be the HPF freqency pot, it can be the  aux send level pot for all 12 auxes, it can be the compressor threshold. Around this knob live several LEDs(I believe it is fifteen). These LED show input level, or aux send level, or compressor gain reduction, or pan position, or...

I find the effects in the TT24 to be, like many in digidesks, usable. They are not bad, they are not fantastic. You can, and I do use them exclusively. One of the things on my wishlist for the TT24 is a tap delay function. There is none. Apparently, it is on the list of things to implement in a future firmware update. While on the subject of my wishlist, I'll toss it all out, right now, no holds barred, as it were:

I'd like to be able to split an input to more than one channel. Can't, internally anyway. Why would you do that?? When running mons from FOH, it is nice not to be stuck with the same EQ and more importantly, dynamics on the aux sends as you've got in the FOH mix.

I'd like to be able to insert graphic EQs, or parametric, or digital, or.... into the aux masters. AFAIK, can't do that either. The ADAT I/O on the TT24 is just for I and O, there are no "digital inserts" like on the Yamaha stuff. Deal killer??? Nope. The outs DO have 6band EQ, which is more than I frequently need anyway. This one is more of a comfort factor thing.

I'd like to be able to send the aux masters to the matrices. This way, you could shoot "sammy's" mix over into "mike's" wedges when he runs over there (excuse the VH reference) if you were so inclined. It would also mean you could have the aux outputs on XLR. Again, not a deal killer at all.

The gates click if the attack is set fast enough to catch fast stuff. The Yamaha gates do the same thing, as do many analog gates. Not a big deal, just something I noticed.

One of the cooler things about the TT24, and this is now on my wish list for all the other digidesks out there, is the ability to NOT have the PC screen follow what the desk itself is doing. This means, for example, I can be out front with my tablet, driving FOH, while my mon guy runs the stage mixes, and we don't get in each other's way. He doesn't have to stop what he's doing to let me catch the GTR solo, and I don't have to default to him when "elvis" needs more GO. This one is VERY cool. Bob Cap, take notice of this....

More later, time to fire up the grill!

P.S.

Incase it seems like I am negative at all towards this desk, a little insight: my current thoughts include "maybe if I sell the original 01v that is currently in "1402" duty, and bump the 01V96 down to "1402" duty, I can grab one of these ( I know where there is a demo unit....) for my main digidesk, for a while".....
Logged
Lee Jacobson
Technical Director
Brevard Sound Systems
Deltona, FL
386 717 4600

Rodd Lowell

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 88
Re: TT24 - Part 2
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2006, 02:06:23 pm »

Lee Jacobson wrote on Fri, 18 August 2006 01:30

Things I really like on the TT24 include the V-pot, the swept HPF that does not burn a band of EQ (even though it lacks frequency indication on the screen), the flex groups, and more.


Lee,

I think that the HPF lists its frequency on the EQ screen.  It isn't on the FAT screen.  It only shows up when the HPF is activated (just push the V-Pot).

Hope that helps,

Rodd
Logged

Tim Padrick

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5008
Re: TT24 - Part 2 - Gain Question
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2006, 04:35:32 pm »

To me, the beauty of a digital desk is the ability to save the mix (opening act, headliner, etc.).  If the desk is not 100% save-able, it's not for us.

If I read rightly, the TT24's channels have a non-save-able analog trim and a save-able digital trim.  The question: is there a magic "one size fits all" analog trim position that won't clip with a hot condenser on a drum or guitar cab, yet won't be too noisy when you crank up the digital trim to make an vocal OM7 work?  

Michael 'Bink' Knowles

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4279
    • http://www.binkster.net/index.shtml
Re: TT24 - Part 2 - Gain Question
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2006, 04:56:40 pm »

Tim Padrick wrote on Sun, 20 August 2006 13:35

To me, the beauty of a digital desk is the ability to save the mix (opening act, headliner, etc.).  If the desk is not 100% save-able, it's not for us.

If I read rightly, the TT24's channels have a non-save-able analog trim and a save-able digital trim.  The question: is there a magic "one size fits all" analog trim position that won't clip with a hot condenser on a drum or guitar cab, yet won't be too noisy when you crank up the digital trim to make an vocal OM7 work?  



No, there's not.  Sad

If you used a "one-size" analog gain setting on a quiet source you'd run into troubles with the system-wide Noise Suppression threshold control which gates off anything below -70dBFS at its least sensitive. You can tweak up the system noise threshold to -50dBFS but I have never seen the need. You can also toggle the option off so that your quieter source isn't gated off. Your buses and open channels will be noisier if you turn Noise Suppression off, to say nothing of the noise on the quiet source with a medium analog gain setting.

If you used the same "one-size" gain setting on a hot signal you'd distort the preamp with line sources like playback tracks.

Other parts of the mixer that are manual and not digitally save-able are right up there on top with the analog gain trims: phantom power ON/OFF and TRS/XLR input select, represented by push buttons on every channel.

-Bink
Logged
Michael 'Bink' Knowles
www.binkster.net

Lee Jacobson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 397
    • http://www.brevardsoundsystems.com
Re: TT24 - Part 2
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2006, 10:18:35 pm »

Tim,

 As Bink said, nope. AFAIK, the only ones doing that now in the $ range where mortals can afford them are the M7 and 5DRH, tho the Scraft and A&H may as well, when they hit the market.

 While I agree with your point about being able to save everything to a scene, for me the digidesks offer another advatage. They include EVERYTHING. I need no outboard toys, no FX, etc etc. If you look at the numbers, even for the TT24, by the time you started with any 24+8ch desk with even 4 band swept EQ, leave out the full para and the VCAs, then added 32 ch of comps, 32ch of gates, 4 usable FX, 3 ch of graphs, etc, you'd be WELL over the cost of the TT24, not to mention a few racks full of stuff to carry and set up, lots of $$ tied up in insert looms, etc. Now, add in the VCAs, and the fact that you can recall MOST of the settings, and the digi option is not easy to turn down. For an example of the kind of $$ we're talking, I'll use my 01v96 rig VS my HP8/40 rig. I have two 16sp case over racks that go with the HP8. One is toys, one is drive. The internal toys in the '96 include more channels of stuff than what is in those racks, and the insert looms alone cost more than the 01V96 cost me. I have them both multipinned, so they are more than a simple insert snake, but still. Being that the TT24 has a similar count of dynamics channels, more EQ, and equally usable effects as the 01V96 does, the savings in buying/racking/wiring/setting up/moving/storing all that stuff really adds up, in my brain.

More later, enjoying my time on this desk.
Logged
Lee Jacobson
Technical Director
Brevard Sound Systems
Deltona, FL
386 717 4600

Marc Schwartz

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 481
Re: TT24 - Part 2
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2006, 11:10:14 am »

Lee,

You seem to be impressed with this product. In your opinion, how does the performance sonically compare to your Yamaha 01V?
Did you buy a tt24 or are you just trying out one for evaluation?

-marc
Logged

Lee Jacobson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 397
    • http://www.brevardsoundsystems.com
Re: TT24 - Part 2
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2006, 07:17:32 pm »

Marc,

 Which 01v, the original or the 96?? I ask because those two are not at all similar sounding either. Well, similar, but not identical. I'd put the TT24 in the "01v96 or better" sounding range. The first 01v is very nice, but sound isn't its strongest selling point, to me anyway. The 01v96 seems to sound a little more "open, airy" less "grainy" than the first, and I'd say the TT24 is more of the same, maybe even more open/airy than the 01V96. Right now I am very torn between these two desks. If I had to choose one for all my events, and either could handle the events, I really dunno. The TT24 has MUCH better ergonomics, stuff is faster/easier to get to. That said, the '96 has a little more flexibility in terms of routing and whatnot, and it is quite a bit smaller.

Second question: nope. I am a Road Tester for Huge Universe. The TT24 is "the one that started it all" in terms of the road test. I am just the next guy to get it. Seems I'll have it for a while, then it'll go elsewhere. Bennett, Evan, Myself, and a bet a few other folks are on the list. We get the gear, use it, have it long enough to get past the "honeymoon" phase and into the real "you know, if it would do THIS, it'd be so much cooler" stuff. Road Test is much more than a quicky weekend use and review. That's my take on it, anyway.

Logged
Lee Jacobson
Technical Director
Brevard Sound Systems
Deltona, FL
386 717 4600

Bob Cap

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 376
    • http://parallel.tzo.com/AdvancedAudio
Re: TT24 - Part 2
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2006, 10:45:12 am »

Lee,

I just got back from several weeks of fairs and festivals and just had a chance to catch up on the road test.

It sounds like about the only downside is the ability to patch the same input to several channels? The only time I need this is when I run mains and monitors and need seperate EQ for different mixes. But this can be worked around the same way I did it on an analog board, with Y cords.

You say you can lock the screen in for monitor use while I do the FOH on the tablet? Hmmmm. Could save a few train wrecks we've had.

Are you using any additional pre's with it?

I currently use the DM1K with three 8 channel pres to bring it up to 40 mic inputs. I know you need the additional dsp card for have anything on the additional channels.

Nobody I know around my neck of the woods has one of the TT24's so I haven't had any hands on use yet. Although I did get the opportunity to do some shows with the M7.

Damn decisions decisions decisions....

Do you do any nationals or semi nationals? What type of reaction have you had? As if we should be driven by a rider.....

I'll be waiting for your next update.

Bob Cap
Advanced Audio, Inc.
Gilbert, MN
Logged

Lee Jacobson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 397
    • http://www.brevardsoundsystems.com
Re: TT24 - Part 2
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2006, 06:20:49 pm »

Bob,

 No external pre yet. I do have some ADA8000s, but like you said, without the DSP card, I have only enough dsp for the analog ins, OR the digital ins, not both. If Mackie wanted to send me a DSP card, I'd gladly check out the TT24 with more than the 24+8 channels this one has. No national acts, yet. I do think this desk would be fine for some, as long as it did what they needed. Of course for some, the lack of a tap delay is a deal breaker. Yes, the "blind" feature for the computer is VERY cool. This desk really has me at odds with myself, because it has so many very well thought out features, and then lacks some very basic stuff, like the afore mentioned tap delay. The desk is doing a show this weekend at a church. It was interesting showing not only a guy who had no TT24 experience, but no digidesk time at all thru the desk. He got most of it pretty quickly. Things currently on my "I don't understand" list include the tap delay, and the lack of routing ability. The little Yamaha desks can use the ADAT I/O as inserts, or route damn near anything to them, split channels, etc. The TT24 can't. Its ADAT outs are direct outs, pre everything, right off the preamps for channels 1-24, and its ADAT ins are only inputs for channels 25-48. It'd be very cool to be able to insert an EQ for monitors. That said, with street prices on these where they are, one CAN end up with a "pimped out" TT24, bumped to 48+8+8internal FX returns for well under $10K. The next closest competitor to that is the M7, at almost 2X the $$, and it won't do the "blind computer" trick....

Still very much digging the desk.

One thing that came to mind and has been a topic of more than a few conversations with folks as of late is the whole "no mackie" thing. This desk CLEARLY is NOT the SR%%*4 series, nor the old 8 bus series. With folks like Bink using the TT24 on high-brow corporate work, I wonder just how acceptable this thing is in places where other Mackie desks would be turned down without a second thought.

More later, as always.

Lee
Logged
Lee Jacobson
Technical Director
Brevard Sound Systems
Deltona, FL
386 717 4600
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 13   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.043 seconds with 19 queries.