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[Mike Butler (media)]

"Microsoft Works" Oxymoron!

Actually it did work! Many years ago I got MS Works for my first Mac. Then later  they came out with a PowerMac version, which I installed on my first Power mac (see, I told you it was many years ago!   )  Not for its word processor, I already had MS Word; not for the spreadsheet, I already had Excel. But Works had a very easy-to-use database that did everything I needed. I designed several forms to use for invoices, contracts, and other business documents.

After Apple came out with OS X, I installed that, and then my machine needed to be dual boot in order to support my legacy OS 9 applications like Works, or at least had to run in Classic mode. Then along came 10.4 (Tiger?) which I needed to install in order to be able to run newer versions of other apps. This made everything just crankier when trying to use MS Works. And my 1.67 PowerBook Aluminum won't even do anything having to do with Classic mode or any OS9/Classic apps.

Here's the problem. MS Works doesn't exist anymore. MS doesn't support it or sell any new versions. Not even for Windoze, so I can't just go get a cheap WalMart PC.

It's not like I can't get my data out. I can export it or even copy/paste out to something else, but nothing else does what I want so easily. One quick data entry creates a contract, the software does all the math, creates the necessary addressed envelopes and return envelopes and invoices (all based on forms I designed and containing all the necessary professional graphics), and it easily generates all the reports needed for periodic IRS and sales tax purposes. There is no way Excel has anything so convenient. Nevermind Word. Wanna laugh? I used to do each form manually in QuarkXpress or Illustrator!! (They looked great--hey of course they did, I'm a graphic designer , but were dumb as a stump, I had to use a hand calculator and had to input every address again and again for each form for one contract transaction!)

I have absolutely no desire to learn FileMaker Pro, nor to pay someone to design/develop the necessary replacement documents. I don't even want to deal with re-creating things in Quickbooks, which might have the capabilities I need.

Any gurus out there with a fix? Was there a secret version of MS Works for OS X that I haven't heard about? Or maybe some upstart aftermarket clone (or competitor) product that will work on my files?

[Michael Prasuhn]

Mike, while I feel your pain at the lack of a quick and dirty database solution for OS X, there are a couple of possibilities. One is to look into Filemaker the 500lbs gorilla of its type. It should be able to do everything that Works did and then a good bit more. It's also probably way way more expensive than you were looking to get into and may take quite a bit of work in the translation process to recreate all your forms in it.

The closest thing to MS Works though is AppleWorks which is still sold for OS X by Apple. It is rather similar to MS Works in that it features a little of everything and does it all fairly well, but is not as full featured as say iWork or MS Office. (in fact the only portion of Appleworks to have a grown up sibling is the database, which is Filemaker, from back in the day when it was ClarisWorks and Filemaker was developed by Claris as well) It may or may not be able to import your files at all or partially.

The other option which seems to me to be most likely to be able to import what you have done and not cause you much trouble is to get the 'El cheapo PC' and then grab a copy of Microsoft Access for it. This is the big version of the database in MSworks like Word and Excel are the big versions of word processing and spreadsheet apps. This may or may not be the case but I seem to remember Access having some Works import features. You may want to try this on a friends machine before committing to the PC and the software. Hope this helps some...

-Mikey P

Edit: fix links

[Adam Whetham]

Have you tried Openoffice.org?

Completely Free.

[Mac Kerr]

Michael Prasuhn wrote on Wed, 09 August 2006 02:37

(in fact the only portion of Appleworks to have a grown up sibling is the database, which is Filemaker, from back in the day when it was ClarisWorks and Filemaker was developed by Claris as well) It may or may not be able to import your files at all or partially.

Mikey, while the Claris years were certainly part of the development chain of Filemaker, Filemaker was a mature product before Claris was a twinkle in its daddy's eye. It was originally developed by Nashoba Systems at the dawn of Macintosh time. It remains one of the best products of it's type. Ease of use has always been an important feature of Filemaker.

Mike Butler, yes, Filemaker Pro 8.5 is $300 and Access is $150, but you already own the Mac. Filemaker is also easier to create databases in, and if you have a student or teacher in the family, the education price is $147. It will be money well spent.

Mac (still stuck on FM 5.5)

[Mike Butler (media)]

Well, in my OP I said

Quote:

I have absolutely no desire to learn FileMaker Pro, nor to pay someone to design/develop the necessary replacement documents.

let alone do I want to spend the $$$$ purchasing it for the privilege of starting over from scratch. And we are talking about countless hours of work down the drain.

Appleworks might be a solution IF   I can import my existing files with it. The info on it says it can work with Word and Excel files thanks to its built-in DataViz translators, but nothing about MS Works or for that matter any database apps. The good news is it's cheap: teacher price is only $39.

Access says it can import Works files only if I first save them as dBase IV files from Works (I looked at the help menu in Access). I will have to see if it translates OK and the forms designs (that's the hard part) come through. I can get hold of a machine with Access to try this.

Openoffice.org sounds like a brilliant solution, again IF it will take my files. Certainly can't beat the price!    That's obviously the lowest risk option because it costs me nothing to try. (I also have a no-charge trial version of FM, but implementing it will cost me dearly in time.)

Thanks Mikey, Ian, and Mac for your thoughts. Anybody else?

[Mac Kerr]

Mike Butler (media) wrote on Wed, 09 August 2006 12:29

Well, in my OP I said Quote: I have absolutely no desire to learn FileMaker Pro, nor to pay someone to design/develop the necessary replacement documents. let alone do I want to spend the $$$$ purchasing it for the privilege of starting over from scratch. And we are talking about countless hours of work down the drain.

I realize you did say that, however your current solution is gone, and FM will be the easiest to use of all the DB systems mentioned here so far. It also has a very straight forward method for importing data from another program. I don't know if other db environments have caught up (I'm not a db expert), but it used to be that FM was the only db that would let you continue to modify the data structure as you use it. No need to start over each time you want to change something, just build in features as you need them. I am not a computer programmer in any sense of the word (OK, yes on digital consoles) but I built all my show paperwork, bid forms, cable management forms, console patching and routing forms, into a FM database, and I also have an invoicing system that references a client db to look rates and addresses. All of this was very easy to create. There is even a free run time viewer if you want to send interactive paperwork out to someone.

Mac

[Chris Davis]

I would third or fourth the Filemaker recomendation as well.

Filemaker 8.5 (what I am most familiar with) can directly import DBF (dbase) tables also.  So, if you can use Works to produce the dBase format within Works, then you could just import it into Filemaker.  (I suspect Works is just using a DBF file underneath it all)

Failing that, there are also other options for transferring data into Filemaker.

I have used different creative techniques to import at times in favor of the other features Filemaker has.

[Mike Butler (media)]

It's not so much that my current solution is gone, just threatened. It is residing on a machine that is behaving erratically at times, and I know that there is no support for this app. I probably should quit lollygagging and have a proper Mac technician come and clean this machine up for me, which hasn't been done in a long time (certainly not since the OS install), and my overall performance can only improve.

But I do know that this machine (a 733 MHz G4 tower) could go toes up at any time, as can the app, which is why I am thinking of its replacement. I am not worried about getting the data out, that should be the easiest part. And I am more interested in entering new transactions easily and managing them than in old (>1 year) data. With the school discount I guess the $$$ is not the end of the world, only about 3 tankfuls of gas--I'm grumpy but I'll get over it.

I just don't want to think about the hours it's gonna take to recreate those forms.

Come to think of it, it's time to give that tech company a call anyway; it would be a shame to install a new app onto a suboptimally maintained machine.

[Mac Kerr]

Mike Butler (media) wrote on Wed, 09 August 2006 15:30

I guess the $$$ is not the end of the world, only about 3 tankfuls of gas--

  I don't know if that is good news or bad!  

Mac

[Tom Reid]

Quote:

MS doesn't support it or sell any new versions. Not even for Windoze, so I can't just go get a cheap WalMart PC.

Do ya think they'd lose a penny on anything?
http://www.microsoft.com/products/works/ProductDetails.aspx? pid=001

Some options, sync your stuff off to your WinCE device, and bring it back into another piece of software.
Regardless of what you use, you're going to lose some formatting of templates.