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Author Topic: winISD sub designs...what do I do now?  (Read 2361 times)

Dan Brandesky

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winISD sub designs...what do I do now?
« on: June 20, 2006, 10:31:33 pm »

So, I started playing around with WinISD, and came up with what looks like a couple viable sub designs. Both have a compound design with two Eminence delta 12LF. First question is, on the program, there is the delta 12LF. Online there is the Delta 12LFA. These seem to have different parameters. Are they indeed different speakers? I made one design with each, but I found that the 12LF actually worked better. Anyway, so I've got the outside dimensions and all that, but how do I actually assemble this thing? As I recall, they're just basic vented cabs. So then, how do I work in this whole dual driver thing? Basically, I've got some info I don't totally understand, and I have no idea how to execute it. Help?

-Dan
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Paul O'Brien

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Re: winISD sub designs...what do I do now?
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2006, 10:22:10 am »

Dan Brandesky wrote on Tue, 20 June 2006 22:31

First question is, on the program, there is the delta 12LF. Online there is the Delta 12LFA. These seem to have different parameters. Are they indeed different speakers?


The "A" is likely an updated vesion. Overall performance should be close to the original.

Dan Brandesky wrote on Tue, 20 June 2006 22:31


Anyway, so I've got the outside dimensions and all that, but how do I actually assemble this thing? As I recall, they're just basic vented cabs. So then, how do I work in this whole dual driver thing? Basically, I've got some info I don't totally understand, and I have no idea how to execute it. Help?-Dan


What you need to do now is look at how the better manufacturers build thier cabs and try to copy that. Many now use CNC machines to route channels and special locking joints into the panels to make the boxes very strong. You can replicate this with a router and home made jigs, or you could use a simpler construction method with butt joints and battens screwed and glued in place. For a dual driver reflex cab, it is usually better to build it as 2 seperate internal volumes. That way, if one driver fails in action the other is not unloaded and blown as well.
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Dan Brandesky

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Re: winISD sub designs...what do I do now?
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2006, 01:12:05 pm »

"For a dual driver reflex cab, it is usually better to build it as 2 seperate internal volumes. That way, if one driver fails in action the other is not unloaded and blown as well."

So, does that basically mean I would build two separate enclosures in one box, like a dual 18 box type of deal? What I'm ultimately trying to do is make a relatively small, efficient sub. I have really limited space available to me for storing/transporting a sub, so I'm trying to see what I can make. I tried a single 12 and found that it didn't perform as well as two together, but my impression was that they would be in the same enclosure somehow so that they would basically work together. However, I also know really not much about speaker design.

-Dan
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Why do I need cymbal overheads? I'll just use SM58s on the vocals.

Paul O'Brien

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Re: winISD sub designs...what do I do now?
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2006, 03:05:10 pm »

For reflex design, you need a specific amount of box air volume per driver, so it doesn't matter if you build 2 seperate boxes for each driver, or 1 big box for both. The double driver box will be twice the size of a single driver box. You are also limited to the drivers sensitivity and power handling when determining final SPL capabilities. And 2 drivers equally powered will be 3db louder than a single driver. If you will only ever need the levels two 18" are capable of generating, then reflex is a good option, and the Peavey Lowrider has got to be the best value available right now. Best performance from these is with each driver in an approx. 8cu ft enclosure. But once you get beyond that, horn loaded subs become a better option.
These have traditionally been big, but newer designs are breaking that trend. Check out Bill Fitzmaurice's Tubas. They are a unique design that can use inexpensive drivers in small cabs that easily outperform reflex boxes of similar size.
http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/

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Iain_Macdonald

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Re: winISD sub designs...what do I do now?
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2006, 04:28:15 pm »

Dan,

Here is a link that you might find useful. Lots of good information and other links.

http://www.subwoofers.cc/HomeAud/Information/submanual/oldsu b_manual.htm

If you haven't got this book then I would consider buying it.

http://www.audioxpress.com/bksprods/books/bkaa68.htm

index.php/fa/5079/0/
Some compound configurations.

Good luck.

Iain.

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Dan Brandesky

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Re: winISD sub designs...what do I do now?
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2006, 11:41:17 pm »

In terms of Tubas, I'm seeing the Tuba 18 and 24 as something along the lines of what I'm wanting, but my question is, could I get away with the 18? Again, space is definitely an issue, but I want something that will perform well, so do I have to go up to the "pro" 24?

-Dan
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Why do I need cymbal overheads? I'll just use SM58s on the vocals.

Johan Rademakers

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Re: winISD sub designs...what do I do now?
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2006, 06:09:42 am »

Size is often a measure for performance, especially with cabs of similar fold geometry/style. In that context it's (usually) best to go with the bigger cab.
The tuba 24 is about twice as big as the Tuba 18, with the Tuba 18 being rather small for PA. You'll be happy with that extra volume when the time comes that you'll need it (basically every gig you do).

With kind regards Johan
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