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Author Topic: danley sound labs TH-115 vs bassmaxx Z-5  (Read 22768 times)

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Just the numbers TH-115 vs Z-5
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2006, 09:40:25 pm »

I cannot help on the other brands, but here is a measured plot of 1-2 and 4 TH115's with 100W each measured at 10', so it is the same measurement technique as the bassmax in the shootout.  Note that there is 0%-yes NONE- smoothing used.  This is the raw data with 4096 samples.

Also notice the phase response at the bottom of the graph.

index.php/fa/5006/0/
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

William Cowan

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Re: danley sound labs TH-115 vs bassmaxx Z-5
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2006, 10:03:58 pm »

Wow! Four boxes sure are flat.

Anyone have plots for a four box Bassmaxx or EAW cluster?
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: danley sound labs TH-115 vs bassmaxx Z-5
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2006, 10:19:45 pm »

Yes I was amazed also.  I wondered if there was something wrong with my measurement, so I dropped the drive level and the output level just went down by the same amount. So I dropped it some more and the level just came down, but the response curve stayed the same. While the TH115 does not rely on mutual coupling as much as regular horn subs do, it does benefit from it.  If I put a little smoothing on it, you get a really straight line.  The data shown is as bad as it can be shown.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Duane Massey

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Re: danley sound labs TH-115 vs bassmaxx Z-5
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2006, 11:33:06 pm »

The "open compression" design has always puzzled me, as all of the big horns we built in the 70's and 80's used sealed compression chambers. I am playing "catch-up" with the newer designs, not that I plan on building anything along these lines, but I am trying to fill in the many gaps in my knowledge about subwoofers outside of the straight horns that I have been involved with.
This forum has been a great window for someone like me to catch little tidbits of knowledge. Thanks.
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Duane Massey
Houston, Texas, USA

Pascal Pincosy

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Re: danley sound labs TH-115 vs bassmaxx Z-5
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2006, 02:14:14 am »

The Z-5 is designed to be used in large blocks ie 4 or more cabinets. The more cabinets you use, the lower the rolloff point. And it's flat to 150 Hz.

Bassmaxx also makes the Z-6, which is a Z-5 cabinet with the Neo driver in it, which will also extend the low-end response. They have a removeable horn modification that moves the response down to "normal" sub ranges, with a measured response of +/-1db from 28Hz to 106 Hz.

I highly encourage anyone interested in purchasing either of these subs (or any other subwoofer out there in the approx same price range) to take a listen to both the TH-115 and the Z-5. Either sub will cream anything else on the market (including EAW's EAW BH760.) However the TH-115 and the Z-5 have two very different sounds to them, so I would definitely recommend a listening test before you throw down your hard earned cash.

One of the biggest advantages to the open-backed design is driver cooling. The motor structure is able to disperse heat that would just build up in a sealed chamber, meaning that long-term heat buildup is less of an issue.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: danley sound labs TH-115 vs bassmaxx Z-5
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2006, 06:57:11 am »

There is a link on Danley's website that discusses the basic idea behind a tapped horn.  Sorry, but no plans------.

http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/pdf/danley_tapped.pdf
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Scott Hibbard

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Re: danley sound labs TH-115 vs bassmaxx Z-5
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2006, 07:58:32 am »

Hi Pascal,

Have you had the opportunity to listen to all the subs you mentioned, TH-115, Z5/Z6 and the EAW BH760/822e??  If so, you're quite fortunate!

I'm curious as to what you're basing "...Either sub (TH-115 or Z5) will cream anything else on the market (including EAW's  BH822e/BH760" on.  What does this mean? Lower freq response? Higher output? etc.

Again I'm just wondering as you've peaked my interest.  I've not yet heard the TH-115 or Z5 (and hope to have that pleasure someday), but speaking from first hand listening, the BH760/940 are among the very top echelon of premium touring subs.  

ScottH

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Tom Danley

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Re: Just the numbers TH-115 vs Z-5
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2006, 02:19:32 pm »

Hi William

As you suspect, the advantage of the Tapped horn goes away as the size of the horn is increased, by the time you have a full mouth and a half wavelength path at the low cutoff, there is no advantage.  I forgot to link to the White paper with more of an explanation but I see Ivan did link it.

Pretty much my whole life people have said my horns were too big and / or heavy.
I suppose that actually started with one of my first big ones that didn’t fit through my parent’s back door and spent its short life outside serving as both a wasp nest and target backstop, until a picnic bonfire in the fall..
Anyway, I am pleased having found a way to make a bass horn a bit smaller.

To me, when I compared to what I could get in a conventional small bass horn or vented box of the same size, it did seem like the Tapped horn was something of an acoustic breakthrough and is why I applied for a patent.    
Ivan posted a TEF screen capture for 4 115’s at 400w, here is a curve for 4 boxes –6dB from that (like the others.).
At 50Hz, the sensitivity is about 109dB which is about 50% efficiency, above that, there is a rise in response which is not increased efficiency but rather from forward directivity.
One does not get a flat response curve or this efficiency with anything like this physical size using a conventional horn.

Since it is easy to fudge or misinterpret numbers and hard to fudge a response curve and since they are easy to take, it would seem like response curves should be a common form of loudspeaker data presentation.  
I suppose it is partly because loudspeakers are by far the weakest link in the reproduction chain and in some cases the ability to fudge numbers, that makes measured curves “not too common” among some of the big guys.
I have not seen any measured curves on the speakers you mentioned, although it seems to me that they hired somebody who posted on the forum to do that quite a while ago.
In the interest in identifying actual reality, I would encourage people to measure / compare loudspeakers.
I have seen some marvelous examples of highly  fictional specifications in pro sound, perhaps fictional assumes too much maybe they just have  different dB and frequency scales than I am used to.  
To me, there is just no excuse for stating a subwoofer’s sensitivity based on what it did at 800 or 1800Hz, for over stating the acoustic output by a factor of 10 or 100 or the low cutoff stretched a half octave from where it measures. No excuse for using vague, unstated or non-standard signals or practices (seemingly to avoid replication / verification of the numbers.)

In any case, the point is that what ever a speaker does, can be measured and compared to the spec’s or other products and that is reality.  
Every so often the Lab sub guys get together and have a shoot out or the live-sound guys, a listening test, that is probably the best thing available for the attendees and readers to separate the wheat from chaff.
Best Regards,

Tom Danley
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Iain_Macdonald

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Re: Just the numbers TH-115 vs Z-5
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2006, 03:44:49 pm »

Tom,

In between the million and one things you need to do. Could you find time to post a set of meaninful tests for sub cabinets, whatever their type. There are other tests than TEF sweeps, MLS etc. I would add, the multi-tone tests that Dr Anhert? uses. These will show up a badly designed reflex box in a short time. The driver ends up getting a DC like shift in position, then crumples. This test will also blow the back of some other types of cabinet at full power.

Iain.
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Matthias Schuler

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Re: danley sound labs TH-115 vs bassmaxx Z-5
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2006, 03:11:52 pm »

Hi William

Want to see a response graph for the EAW BH760?
Here they are:
http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/3954/0/32/0 /
(Scroll down to Langston Holland's post).
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