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Author Topic: Digital -vs- Analog  (Read 26246 times)

Ryan Lantzy

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Re: Digital -vs- Analog
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2006, 10:59:35 PM »

Kerry Stansbury wrote on Fri, 02 June 2006 21:59

There seems to be quite a difference between the high fidelity purist crowd and the pro-sound crowds opinion on sound. The high fidelity crowd won't even listen to CD's! I have never heard a CD sound as real as a vinyl record, I can play albums that sound so real they take your breath away, I play the same song on a CD and it might have a better frequency response, but it just doesn't sound real. I have listened to a lot of bands live with mics only on the vocals and the rest of the instruments without additional amplification, that's what a PA should sound like! I think when the recording studio's started using cheap monitors like alesis instead of JBL is when the recording industry started going down hill.


Are you for real?  Seriously.  This is obviously your attempt at being a troll, and the WORST attempt at being a troll I've seen in a while.

I own a turntable.  I own a bunch of crazy stuff on vinyl.  It sounds good, and different, and nostalgic.  But let me tell you this, the Doobs sound WAY better live through a L'acoustic Vdosc system than on my 2000 odd dollar stereo and turntable.





WAY better.

I honestly think the reason people say CDs sound bad just NEVER heard what music should sound like.  Or they are partially deaf.
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Ryan Lantzy
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Digital -vs- Analog
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2006, 08:20:10 AM »

Kerry Stansbury wrote on Fri, 02 June 2006 20:59

There seems to be quite a difference between the high fidelity purist crowd and the pro-sound crowds opinion on sound. The high fidelity crowd won't even listen to CD's! I have never heard a CD sound as real as a vinyl record, I can play albums that sound so real they take your breath away, I play the same song on a CD and it might have a better frequency response, but it just doesn't sound real. I have listened to a lot of bands live with mics only on the vocals and the rest of the instruments without additional amplification, that's what a PA should sound like! I think when the recording studio's started using cheap monitors like alesis instead of JBL is when the recording industry started going down hill.



Yes indeed. While I decline to debate what other people hear I likewise don't like to stereotype entire groups of people. However in this case a little may go a long way to help characterize your identified difference of opinion. In my experience the anti-digital camp are overly reliant on uncontrolled listening tests in almost religious pursuit of presumably undiscovered or unrecognized sonic differences. While the non-anti-digital (sorry for the double negative) group is less likely to assign attributes to a technology and instead focuses on the actual performance of a given audio path as characterized by repeatable objective measurements and controlled listening tests.

I have been exposed to both consumer and professional audio for years and sound quality metrics are pretty well defined and understood by knowledgeable engineers. Many marketers have little to gain from such a position so often inflate for merchandising purposes minor or nonexistent differences (voodoo speaker wire anybody?). Many would have you believe that only they posses the magic secrets.

JR

   

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Digital -vs- Analog-Hammers and skills
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2006, 11:54:20 AM »

Give 3 guys a hammer.
One will build you a house
Another will build a fine piece of furniture
The third will hit his thumb and blame the hammer! Mad

It is not so much the tool but how it is used that makes the difference.  It is a lot easier to blame the tool than ones own incompetance.

Yes good tools are nice, but in the wrong hands, they do not produce good results.  In this day and age we are relying so much more on the actual tools than skill.  That is why there is so much poor work being done.  Anybody can buy a tool that is great, but they cannot buy skill.

BUT in a skilled persons hands-you can get GREAT results.  Just like a musical instrument.  The top of the line instrument will still sound like crap in a beginners hands, but let a true artist get ahold of it------
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Michael 'Bink' Knowles

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Re: Digital -vs- Analog
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2006, 11:55:31 AM »

Kerry Stansbury wrote on Fri, 02 June 2006 16:29

I have a friend that lives 600 miles from me that is really into all the new digital equipment. He owns a yamaha OV196 mixer and a dbx 260 DSP. He is always telling me how great they are, especially all the features. My question is, How do they sound?


They sound fine. Of course, his speakers are the biggest part of how his rig sounds, so everything will be colored by them. Go visit your friend and take your favorite crossover, amp and speakers with you so that the O1V96 can be listened to under conditions familiar to you. Better yet, put it all to an ABX test.


Kerry Stansbury wrote on Fri, 02 June 2006 16:29

...When I hear all the new CD's that come out recorded on all digital equipment, thay sound like shit!


They sound like shit because you are buying pop CDs that have been overproduced to be TOO LOUD. Stop buying pop CDs for your personal pleasure! Of course, you'll have to have them at your DJ businesses... Check out this article by Rip Rowan about the evolution of loudness on Rush recordings. And Rush isn't the worst offender! Multiply what he says by a factor of ten for the most popular songs by the most popular artists. Basically, the true sound of the original instruments has been deemed unimportant on these songs. Click on the image to get the article:

http://www.prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/cabe2da31fbd48288625663b0019608b/8a133f52d0fd71ab86256c2e005daf1c/Story/0.334A?OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=gif


Kerry Stansbury wrote on Fri, 02 June 2006 16:29

 ...I can see the digital advantage if your speakers are not designed very well and need a lot of help, but what if the speaker are well designed? Please give me your 2 cents worth.


Speakers, microphones and turntable magnetic cartridges all have waaay more distortion than other parts of the signal chain. They are all converting movement to electricity and vice versa... they are transducers. Once you're past transducers and into the rest of the chain, audio differences are quite small between well-designed pieces of gear no matter whether they are digital or analog. So small that most people can't hear the difference--and we're back to ABX tests.

Typically, digital options have a compelling feature set that answer one or more long-standing problems you were unable to deal with previously on your analog gear. Very sexy stuff that sounds good in the right hands and sounds TOO LOUD in the wrong ones.

-Bink (four cents worth where two is too much...)
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Michael 'Bink' Knowles

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Re: Digital -vs- Analog-Hammers and skills
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2006, 11:58:55 AM »

Quote:

Give 3 guys a hammer...


...and they'll fight over who gets to use it!   Laughing

-Bink
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Digital -vs- Analog-Hammers and skills
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2006, 12:02:10 PM »

OK-OK give EACH a hammer-----And it needs to be the same hammer quality/model-independatly tested and verified etc.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Digital -vs- Analog-Hammers and skills
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2006, 12:03:58 PM »

Ivan Beaver wrote on Sat, 03 June 2006 11:02

OK-OK give EACH a hammer-----And it needs to be the same hammer quality/model-independatly tested and verified etc.


Give a man a hammer, and even screws look like nails.... Laughing


JR
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Ryan Lantzy

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Re: Digital -vs- Analog
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2006, 06:15:17 PM »

Michael 'Bink' Knowles wrote on Sat, 03 June 2006 11:55

Kerry Stansbury wrote on Fri, 02 June 2006 16:29

...When I hear all the new CD's that come out recorded on all digital equipment, thay sound like shit!


They sound like shit because you are buying pop CDs that have been overproduced to be TOO LOUD. Stop buying pop CDs for your personal pleasure! Of course, you'll have to have them at your DJ businesses... Check out this article by Rip Rowan about the evolution of loudness on Rush recordings.


Agreed, Vapor Trails sounds like trash.  I was very dissapointed when I got it.

You know what else sounds like trash.  Bar bands with an ID 10 T mixer boi that inserts a compressor on the main mix with a 4:1 and a threshold of -15.  Then, to compensate for his idiocy, he boosts the crossover inputs and outputs 10 dB EACH.

I think the only generalization you can make is the one that Ivan made.  The right tool in the wrong hands can make stuff suck.

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Ryan Lantzy
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Mike Butler (media)

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Re: Digital -vs- Analog
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2006, 12:38:34 PM »

Bennett Prescott wrote on Fri, 02 June 2006 22:43

...I hope that made some sort of sense, these discussions rarely do.

That's the other generalization we can make.

Gotta go, want to listen to "Dark Side of the Moon" on my ol' Linn Sondek thru a mono McIntosh tube amp and single Klipschorn. Laughing  Laughing
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Ales Dravinec 'Alex'

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Re: Digital -vs- Analog
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2006, 04:36:17 PM »

Mike Butler (media) wrote on Thu, 27 July 2006 17:38

Gotta go, want to listen to "Dark Side of the Moon" on my ol' Linn Sondek thru a mono McIntosh tube amp and single Klipschorn. Laughing  Laughing


Why are two orange-heads laughing.....I thought you are dead serious

Alex
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