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Author Topic: APB Dynasonics Spectra-T - Show Report  (Read 172473 times)

Bennett Prescott

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Re: APB Dynasonics Spectra-T - Show Report
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2006, 07:17:05 pm »

Rick Stansby wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 18:39

Does anybody know what that little hole is next to the line in jacks?  I think it is labeled "Ext In".

That's a recessed latching button, Rick. It's for the expansion capabilities on the board... there are (three?) expansion slots by the master section that let you plug in external inputs (like CAT-5 from a digital snake) and then you bypass the console's pres and use your alternate input by pressing that recessed switch.
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Bennett Prescott

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Re: APB Dynasonics Spectra-T - Show Report
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2006, 07:26:38 pm »

Fred Merkle wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 18:35

Your faraday cage is only as good as the holes in it...

The holes represent the knee of the faraday cage's high pass, I take it?

Fred Merkle wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 18:35

That's easy enough to test out.  Do you have a GSM phone?  (preferably a Treo)  Set it on the console and call it.  See what happens when you move it around.

Don't worry, I plan to test everything I receive that's got an audio interface. The Spectra T will go through the same tests the Roland's about to go through... phone and 60hz "hummer".
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-- Bennett Prescott
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: APB Dynasonics Spectra-T - Show Report
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2006, 07:29:22 pm »

Fred Merkle wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 16:59



 What do you expect the jack to be supported by?  The PCB?  I think there's still very good reason for using nuts as physical attachment points to provide support.  Secondly, I also believe that in terms of shielding and immunity, having a metal jack and jack nut with properly masked chassis (or lock washer of sorts) is far superior to plastic jacks.   I'm especially concerned about it in this day and age of GSM.

 I certainly agree with you though, that metal or plastic jacks provide very little insight into the quality of the overall mechanical design.  There are always price points and manufacturing constraints to deal with.

-Fred




I am not going to write a tutorial on packaging and there are folks much better than I at that game, but better 1/4" jacks have screw bosses in them so they can be screwed down to the PCB. Even lower labor approaches involve solid bosses that nest into holes in the PCB to strain relief the forces from insertion/removal cycles. The fastest way to fatigue and trash a solder connection is to make it structural. Likewise if you have tens of 1/4" jacks in a PCB you need to resist the temptation to use that for fastening, although I suspect many smaller low cost (disposable) products do that (who me?  Rolling Eyes ) .

What exactly do you expect the metal barrel on a 1/4" jack to shield, the ground lead? With modern powder coating and metal treatments getting a proper ground even with metal nuts isn't insured. Good quality plastic jacks can even have special piercing ground contacts to cut into the panel chassis and make a decent quality ground connection. This is often adequate for shielding, not for high current safety ground bonding.

I will concede that I have used a metal barrel 1/4" jack on a low end fixed installation product (something like a 2W or 5W amp and I think I used a high current speaker jack)) for safety ground bonding and it passed agency testing, but that was a very small, very sharp pencil product, and not IMO best practice.

If you're a customer tho' of course you're right.    

JR
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Rick Stansby

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Re: APB Dynasonics Spectra-T - Show Report
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2006, 09:47:00 pm »

Bennett Prescott wrote on Tue, 23 May 2006 00:17

... there are (three?) expansion slots by the master section that let you plug in external inputs (like CAT-5 from a digital snake) and then you bypass the console's pres and use your alternate input by pressing that recessed switch.


Wow! Thanks.
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Phil Ouellette

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Re: APB Dynasonics Spectra-T - Show Report
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2006, 11:16:38 pm »

I've been mixing on Yamaha digital consoles (01V, DM1K, DM2K) for a few years now and I love them for what they do. Despite that I still end up wondering every now and then if anybody at Yamaha ever spends any time at live gigs.  The Yamaha consoles get the job done, but sometimes you really have to work pretty hard to get them to do what you want.  The boys at APB have obviously been taking notes and I am very impressed with their understanding of what it takes to get the job done.

To be fair, I haven't got much time on the PM family so it is probable that my occasional sour grapes are just because of the particular consoles I can afford to use.

I wonder what a console that implemented the functionality of a Spectra-T console using a digital console's inners would cost?  Could you implement this in digital for the something close to the price APB is asking for these?  Add some dynamics (compressor/gate) to each channel while you are at it and that would be just about a perfect console.

In reply to the poster complaining about there only being one master fader, I hate multiple master faders.  I often end up wasting a VCA or fader group just to make sure my master levels move in lockstep with each other.

Good job of understanding your market APB.

Phil
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Langston Holland

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Re: APB Dynasonics Spectra-T - Show Report
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2006, 12:02:33 am »

If you're using Internet Explorer, you can stop the graphics resizing by deselecting the check box for "Enable Automatic Image Resizing" in the following:

index.php/fa/4841/0/

Select Tools|Internet Options|Advanced to get to this dialog box.

Comment: This console looks a lot like one of Chuck's prior designs, the Crest X-VCA. Some key specs are similar as well, such as the very important higher input Z around 4k ohms that results in much less mic loading when paralleled to a monitor console. After some experiments in my lab (actually with my lab-rador retriever in my living room) a couple years ago, I raised the input Z of my A&H GL3300 to 4k ohms as well. The improvement was not subtle, specifically with dynamic mics.
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John Petrucelli

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Re: APB Dynasonics Spectra-T - Show Report
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2006, 12:07:16 am »

Sorry, had to break into JR and Fred's "discussion" of metal and plastic jacks. Just to be clear, we use metal bushing jacks with metal nuts on the Spectra in all locations that call for Sleeve=Chassis. The jacks have pointy barbs at the base of the bushing that dig into the metalwork when the nuts are tightened to make a solid electrical connection.
For the XLRs, we use the type that provide a Pin-1 to Chassis connection at the mounting screw. Again, these have a small barb at the mounting locations to insure good chassis contact.
I think that most Pro gear these days would use these same components- the connector manufacturers have been quite good at responding to the audio industry's requests for better "grounding".

Thanks,
JP
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Mike Sveda

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Re: APB Dynasonics Spectra-T - Show Report
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2006, 08:05:27 am »

Glad to see this console getting out there. Saw one at the SE Systems trade show. Very nice looking console. I wish it had been out when we were shopping.  Has some nice features for HOW.  The stereo channels have a special feature for handling split track cd's for tracks performances.  
Who knows, we might have bought the APB instead of the Verona had it been out........

John Roberts {JR}

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Re: APB Dynasonics Spectra-T - Show Report
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2006, 08:10:24 am »

John Petrucelli wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 23:07

Sorry, had to break into JR and Fred's "discussion" of metal and plastic jacks. Just to be clear, we use metal bushing jacks with metal nuts on the Spectra in all locations that call for Sleeve=Chassis. The jacks have pointy barbs at the base of the bushing that dig into the metalwork when the nuts are tightened to make a solid electrical connection.
For the XLRs, we use the type that provide a Pin-1 to Chassis connection at the mounting screw. Again, these have a small barb at the mounting locations to insure good chassis contact.
I think that most Pro gear these days would use these same components- the connector manufacturers have been quite good at responding to the audio industry's requests for better "grounding".

Thanks,
JP



Yo, JP... Never any question in my mind about you guys doing it right.

I understand that customers judge icebergs by the bit that's showing but there's so much more to it.

JR

PS: Has the snow melted off the tennis courts way up there in Joisy yet?
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Fred Merkle

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Re: APB Dynasonics Spectra-T - Show Report
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2006, 10:55:25 am »

John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Mon, 22 May 2006 19:29


I am not going to write a tutorial on packaging and there are folks much better than I at that game, but better 1/4" jacks have screw bosses in them so they can be screwed down to the PCB. Even lower labor approaches involve solid bosses that nest into holes in the PCB to strain relief the forces from insertion/removal cycles. The fastest way to fatigue and trash a solder connection is to make it structural. Likewise if you have tens of 1/4" jacks in a PCB you need to resist the temptation to use that for fastening, although I suspect many smaller low cost (disposable) products do that (who me?  Rolling Eyes ) .



 Certainly.  Those are all acceptable ways of relieving mechanical forces to the connectors.  My using the PCB comment was a rhetorical question directly referencing the insanely bad practice of relying upon solder for mechanical strength.  I (and others) happen to feel that using the chassis for these purposes is more reliable for a product designed for many years of abuse.  


Quote:


What exactly do you expect the metal barrel on a 1/4" jack to shield, the ground lead? With modern powder coating and metal treatments getting a proper ground even with metal nuts isn't insured.



It is if you want it to be.  Putting metal nuts on a design for grounding reasons, but not getting good contact to the metal surface is poor practice.  Not all products are powder coated.  Metal to metal contact can be insured if designed that way.

Quote:


Good quality plastic jacks can even have special piercing ground contacts to cut into the panel chassis and make a decent quality ground connection. This is often adequate for shielding, not for high current safety ground bonding.



Quote:


If you're a customer tho' of course you're right.    



As I stated before.  You and I are (mostly) in agreement.  Metal jacks and metal nuts do not imply good design practice.  (Now here's the part that I'm not sure whether we agree on.)  Metal jacks and metal nuts do not imply bad design practice or even poor design choice.

 You really have to either respect a manufacturer's technical competence or test for yourself.

-Fred
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