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Author Topic: Best Value - Main Cabs for Band  (Read 6653 times)

Dan Thompson

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Re: Best Value - Main Cabs for Band
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2006, 09:44:58 am »

Thanks for the reply Steve. My SP2G's are 1/4" only requiring an additional cable run but that's not too big a deal. I think that the passive Peavey x-over also saps a bit of power (lost as heat) meaning that the bi-amping route delivers more of the amps power to the drivers. I've been thinking about trying this arrangement but it will mean a different set of poweramps and I just don't know that the juice will be worth the squeeze. I run each SP2G with a bridged RMX 850 @600w/cab. If I want to continue running stereo and split the two 850s for mid & high duty, the mids (15s on the SP2) will only get @200w/cab. While the 850 should be fine for the horns, I'll need 500-600w/side @8ohms to drive the 15s. My plan all along has been to consolidate the 850's into one amp (PLX 3002/3402) to ease transport issues. I guess my question remains, are the performance advantages worth the extra amp and wiring issues (I'm sure they are or everyone would run full range!)?

Dan
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Paul O'Brien

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Re: Best Value - Main Cabs for Band
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2006, 10:59:17 am »

The benifits of biamping come from bypassing the passive crossover. There are phase response and timing issues with a typical 2 way PA speaker system that you have no control over with a passive crossover, but there's also issues with crossover saturation as you approach the rated power levels. With a well designed speaker system, these things would be considered and designed around as best as possible, but there's always cost limits on component quality and on just how much R&D you can put into any particular speaker system, so the lower end speakers usually get the short end of the stick.
If you are at or above the program power level of a speaker system, you may actually be overdriving the crossover somewhat. This adds substantial distortion to the signal. It has been my experience that bi-amping a cab at this level makes a dramatic improvement in overall clarity in sound, because the input signals to the drivers are clean and uncompressed by these passive components. This assumes you use appropriatly sized amps, correct crossover frequencies, and keep the amps out of clipping, obviously. The benifits are less obvious if you are well below rated power.
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Miguel Castro Rios

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Re: Best Value - Main Cabs for Band
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2006, 05:47:43 pm »

hey!

-- i might be a little 2 late to make any coments.

-in case you deside to get the peavey sp2, MAKE SURE you get the "black-widow" driver, not the "scorpion".

i've heard that the scorpion is a bit cheaper, and is not as good, it doesn't have the same output.

-i've used the sp2 with the black-widow driver, and it worked fine, i was happy, I've used them for 'bout 4 years and still work fine, they do get loud enough and can take tons of abuse.

good luck!

-EDIT-

- I Forgot to mention, the sp2 you can use without a sub for a small bar, i've used them full-range without a sub, and they sound really nice, they have a nice low end and sweet highs. but again, this is when only when you use them at low spl levels.

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Steve Oldridge

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Re: Best Value - Main Cabs for Band
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2006, 01:18:04 am »

miguel castro wrote on Wed, 17 May 2006 16:47

 
- I Forgot to mention, the sp2 you can use without a sub for a small bar, i've used them full-range without a sub, and they sound really nice, they have a nice low end and sweet highs. but again, this is when only when you use them at low spl levels.



Before I added subs, eveything from 1.8K down went into the BW 15's and yes, they handled the LF part very nicely. But as Paul so eloquently explained, adding subs allowed me reduce any LF distortion or sub-bass harmonics (etc.) that would have been handled by the BW and clean up the mid-range too. I get clean, clean clean mid's from 100Hz to 1.8K. The upper end is probably a little higher than I would like to set the crossover point (maybe 1.6K), but that's whats' recommened by manufacturer, and seems to work fine. Perhaps the good separation is due to the 24db filters in the crossover. I'm running one side of an RMX2450 into each BW 15 (500w), and one channel of a Yammy P7000s @ 4 ohms (1100w) into the dual 15 sub. The HF Seleniums are run by an old Alesis RA100 (100w stereo). I have no separation or balance issues.

Stve
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Mike McNany

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Re: Best Value - Main Cabs for Band
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2006, 09:56:40 am »

miguel castro wrote on Wed, 17 May 2006 17:47


-in case you deside to get the peavey sp2, MAKE SURE you get the "black-widow" driver, not the "scorpion".

i've heard that the scorpion is a bit cheaper, and is not as good, it doesn't have the same output.


Miguel,

Just to keep things straight, ALL SP2s ever produced have Black Widow series woofers in them from the factory. The Woofers were upgraded in power handling over the years but were still Black Widows.

The Scorpions are a lighter duty version on the BWs and still have field replaceable baskets, AFAIK. I remember ONE of the SP series (SP5?) has Scorpions in them to cut costs but NOT the SP2.

Mike McNany
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Tim Padrick

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Too Tall (Curtis H. List)

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Re: Best Value - Main Cabs for Band
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2006, 03:00:26 pm »

Dan Thompson wrote on Mon, 15 May 2006 16:20

Steve Oldridge wrote on Sun, 14 May 2006 23:30

I've running a pair of SP2's bi-amped for tops and what a difference when compared to full range. Horns were replaced with Selenium DT10i's, but kept the BW 15's...
They perform vey well.


STeve


I run older SP2G's and am interested in your comment about bi-amping vs full range. Can you qualify the "what a difference" comment? Describe the improvement.


It sounds like it may be worth the trouble to pursue that option. I'll take input from anyone on this issue (fullrange vs bi-amping).

Dan



If a full range passive xover is going to work as well as the typical 4th order LR active xover (analog, not digital) they need to spend around $100 retail in caps, coils and resistors. At the level you are looking at it is almost never done.

That said if you give me the three boxes you sited I can build a passive xover that will smoke a design using an active xover and 1/3rd octave EQ. To do as well you have to use a DSP that has a number of parametric EQs available.

In the end I guess that tells the tale. You have to design the xover yourself on anything below $500 a box (a guess). You just can’t expect them to put in anything that costs that much.

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