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[Chuck Safrit]

Bennett Prescott wrote on Thu, 06 April 2006 17:28

You forgot to talk about walking to school in 10' of snow, uphill both ways, JR.

I actually have walked to school, in the snow, uphill both ways. The joys of going to college at a school in the mountains.

[John Roberts {JR}]

Bennett Prescott wrote on Thu, 06 April 2006 16:28

You forgot to talk about walking to school in 10' of snow, uphill both ways, JR.

More like 10" (NJ) and it was only uphill one way, but I'm not complaining.....  

I was running a small mail order business back in the '70s-'80s and it was rockin to have my customer info with every item they ever bought in my home grown data base.  It was crude but only took 10 8" floppies to hold the whole deal.  

Come to think of it I wrote my own BOM, inventory management, accounting, etc... All in friggin basic, but it would "get er done".

I finally bit the bullet and bought my first PC in the '80s when I hit a /K instead of /L while I was writing a magazine column and deleted a days worth of writing. /L is a line feed and /K deletes the whole file, they're right next to each other on the good old qwerty and with those old line editors they didn't ask "are you sure Y or N ?"...  

Ah don't miss those good old days.

JR


I own a mac too so I'm an equal opportunity computer hater... and unlike guitars and cars, new is always better than old. Come to think of it new cars are better too.

[Ryan Lantzy]

Andy Peters wrote on Thu, 06 April 2006 17:59

Ryan Lantzy wrote on Thu, 06 April 2006 14:38 You can pry my Intel/Athlon64/x86/ie32/EMT64 PCI/ISA/AGP/USB/every open standard known to man out of my cold, dead, hands. Ummm, let's see ... Apple was the first kid on the block to have USB ports on their machines.  (FireWire, too.) Macs have had PCI slots since the PowerPC.  It took a bit longer for AGP video to show up, but it's there. ISA?  Who gives a fuck? Let's see, now: Name a non-server PC that has: a) gigabit ethernet standard. b) 64-bit/66 MHz PCI slots standard.

???
old news... PC's skipped 64/66 for the most part and moved to PCIe which is now 2.5Gbit and promises 5 and 10Gbit transfer rates.  That may seem slower... but it's not a bus, it's a p2p connection.  PCIe will replace older variants of PCI in the comming years.

here's a dell with 3 PCIe slots and Gigabit ethernet standard.
http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx /xpsdt_600?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~section=sp ecs#tabtop

Honestly, it doesn't matter what the Mac's have.... there is no market.  I'll admit, 3rd party hardware and software is better than it used to be for the Mac, but I can buy damn near anything for a PC.  And as for problems, I have none.  

I've been building my own PCs for 10 years now and they are always rock solid.  

You just can't argue with numbers.  There is more hardware, software, and support for PCs.

Apple has it's niche... I hope it keeps it, they are a great company but I ain't paying $2000 for a dual 2Ghz PowerPC, when I can buy an Athlon64 based machine in parts, and spank it performance wise all over the block for half of that.

[Dave Stevens]

Ryan Lantzy wrote on Thu, 06 April 2006 21:06

Apple has it's niche... I hope it keeps it,

I got over the platform holy wars before you started building your own PCs.    I use what I like and fits how I work and gives me the most productivity.

Apple is a niche alright.  A 60 billion dollar niche.  I got a question for you.  Which company is performing better, Dell, Microsoft or Apple?  Google it if you need to.

Use the tools you like, like the tools you use.  I prefer a Mac for my desktop but I'd also like to think I'm objective enough to appreciate some of the cool things MS is doing in mobile/PDA systems, gaming platforms and tablets but I'm not satisfied with my user experience under Windows on the desktop.  I've got the means and ability to use whatever I wish and I choose a Mac.  I'm on a computer so much that the overall experience matters far more to me than some benchmark.  And I don't mind paying extra for it.  As far as software goes, I use a few things that aren't available on Windows, and I doubt that many non Mac users have heard of them.  BBEdit (arguably the best text/programming/Web dev editor on any platform and Mac only) Unison, Transmit, iPhoto, browsers, Final Cut/ Soundtrack, Cue Station and a buttload of Dashboard widgets that do various things.  Plus a real *nix console and terminal.  I hardly ever use Office except for Excel.  The assortment of different processors or third party goodies don't make me anymore productive or really offer me any advantage over what I'm using now.   It's not all about the numbers.

Dave

[Ryan Lantzy]

Dave wrote on Fri, 07 April 2006 03:26

Ryan Lantzy wrote on Thu, 06 April 2006 21:06 Apple has it's niche... I hope it keeps it, I got over the platform holy wars before you started building your own PCs.    I use what I like and fits how I work and gives me the most productivity. Apple is a niche alright.  A 60 billion dollar niche.  I got a question for you.  Which company is performing better, Dell, Microsoft or Apple?  Google it if you need to.

Dave, with all due respect, I'm not trying to tell anyone to switch to Windows.  But, when I see something titled "Your next cmputer will be a Mac."  I mean, c'mon.  Get real.

Also, this is not an apple vs. dell or HP, or anyone company.  It's apple vs. the entire industry.

They account for just ~2% of the PC industry.  Most of their sales are due to that little wonder the iPod.  Which, BTW I own and love.

[Mac Kerr]

Ryan Lantzy wrote on Fri, 07 April 2006 00:06

You just can't argue with numbers.  There is more hardware, software, and support for PCs.

Dave's right, use whatever works for you, but the argument that there is more support for Windows is a fantasy that all Windows users live in. Yes, there is a CompUSA or some equivalent everywhere. That doesn't equate to support in my book. As a regular user of both platforms, I have NEVER had a satisfactory support experience with a Windows computer. Not from Dell, not from Toshiba, not from Microsoft, and not from CompUSA. I have had bad support experiences from each one of those. When after 10 hours of telephone support with Dell and Microsoft, and a $140 dollar repair at CompUSA couldn't fix a software problem on my Latitude, I shit canned it and didn't look back. When Toshiba replaced my bad motherboard with another bad motherboard I wrote them off as place to get service. Every support problem I have had with a Mac has been quickly resolved. Both telephone support, and carry in support at the Apple store is knowledgeable and friendly, two descriptors that could not be used about CompUSA, Microsoft, Dell, or Toshiba. It is likely that I will continue to run SMAART on the Toshiba as I want 2 computers on shows anyway. PM1D Editor, and Studio Manager for M7CL are Windows only. The rest of my life will be on the computer I have had the better service and support experience with.

Mac

[John Roberts {JR}]

Mac Kerr wrote on Fri, 07 April 2006 09:44

Dave's right, use whatever works for you, but the argument that there is more support for Windows is a fantasy that all Windows users live in. Yes, there is a CompUSA or some equivalent everywhere. That doesn't equate to support in my book. As a regular user of both platforms, I have NEVER had a satisfactory support experience with a Windows computer. Not from Dell, not from Toshiba, not from Microsoft, and not from CompUSA. I have had bad support experiences from each one of those. When after 10 hours of telephone support with Dell and Microsoft, and a $140 dollar repair at CompUSA couldn't fix a software problem on my Latitude, I shit canned it and didn't look back. When Toshiba replaced my bad motherboard with another bad motherboard I wrote them off as place to get service. Every support problem I have had with a Mac has been quickly resolved. Both telephone support, and carry in support at the Apple store is knowledgeable and friendly, two descriptors that could not be used about CompUSA, Microsoft, Dell, or Toshiba. It is likely that I will continue to run SMAART on the Toshiba as I want 2 computers on shows anyway. PM1D Editor, and Studio Manager for M7CL are Windows only. The rest of my life will be on the computer I have had the better service and support experience with. Mac

I don't think this is too much of a stretch to suggest you are enjoying the better support paid for with the higher price point. The reason apple enjoys a modest market share is because consumers are so value motivated ("penny wise-pound foolish"?).

It's not a matter of right or wrong because customers are always right by definition. I am not personally a huge fan of apple but wish the larger PC business wasn't so fast to accommodate the consumer as they race toward the lowest possible price points by compromising sundry less tangible aspects of the computing experience.

Whatever, they are tools. Use what you need to get the job done with the minimum pain.

JR

[Ryan Lantzy]

Mac Kerr wrote on Fri, 07 April 2006 10:44

Ryan Lantzy wrote on Fri, 07 April 2006 00:06 You just can't argue with numbers.  There is more hardware, software, and support for PCs. Dave's right, use whatever works for you, but the argument that there is more support for Windows is a fantasy that all Windows users live in. Yes, there is a CompUSA or some equivalent everywhere. That doesn't equate to support in my book. As a regular user of both platforms, I have NEVER had a satisfactory support experience with a Windows computer. Not from Dell, not from Toshiba, not from Microsoft, and not from CompUSA.

First off if you can't handle repairing your own PC then the apple-windows argument is moot.  Apple wins I guess in the support arena.  

Fixing a windows computer in disrepair is stupid simple.  Back-up your files in My Documents to a CD-R, thumb drive daily, or your backup of choice.  If you aren't making backups of data, shame on you.  Then, Delete the windows directory, and re-install.  Done.  It takes about 45 minutes for me to reinstall windows and the few applications I *can't* live without.  That will fix nearly every damn problem in the book.  If it's hardware related... you are basically going to be replacing the card/device/drive.  

If it's something small, I've never run into a windows problem I couldn't fix by a) searching the microsoft knowledge base or b) searching google groups.

Maybe figuring these problems out is too much to ask of the every day user... but if it is, and no one is fixing them, why is Microsoft's market share an "ocean liner" compared to Apple's "canoe."

I think it comes down to numbers again.  There are so many damn windows platforms out there, that more people experience more problems.  Percentage wise it's probably nearly even, but people tend to complain more than they praise something.  Therefore, the numbers are skewed.

I'm not an apple hater.  I just think every platform has something to offer.  Trying to claim that Apple is a better better platform is like saying that a Cadillac is a better car than a Dodge Truck.  It is... at crusing around on a Sunday.  But if you want to go offroading or tow a boat, good luck trying with that 4000 lbs Deville.

[Dave Stevens]

Ryan Lantzy wrote on Fri, 07 April 2006 10:01

First off if you can't handle repairing your own PC then the apple-windows argument is moot.  Apple wins I guess in the support arena.

You still don't get it kid.  There is no winner, only different tool sets.  While you might be able to fix your Windows box, most users can't.  You seem to be implying that users that choose to use a Mac are somehow less technically saavy.  Cupcake, I don't think you want to go down that road in forum like this.  I'd reckon there are at least a few Mac users here that are at least or perhaps more familiar with the complexities of Windows than you.  Don't go there kid, it won't be pretty.

While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, I'm not sure that you have the depth of experience in either Windows or other  plaforms to make such a sweeping generalization.  It's one thing to build a few H4X0R or script kiddie gaming machines, it's quite another to deploy a mulit client network and the server applications it involves.

All the stats, specs and benchmarks in the world don't matter if you can't get the job done.

Dave

[Mac Kerr]

Ryan Lantzy wrote on Fri, 07 April 2006 13:01

First off if you can't handle repairing your own PC then the apple-windows argument is moot.  Apple wins I guess in the support arena.   Fixing a windows computer in disrepair is stupid simple.  Back-up your files in My Documents to a CD-R, thumb drive daily, or your backup of choice.  If you aren't making backups of data, shame on you.  Then, Delete the windows directory, and re-install.  Done.  It takes about 45 minutes for me to reinstall windows and the few applications I *can't* live without.  That will fix nearly every damn problem in the book.

I'm glad you are so familiar with what is required to restore from a backup. Apparently you've done it a few times.    I will admit I am not very familiar with the process, nor do I want to be. In 22 years of computer use, including the days of replacing memory and processors soldered to the motherboard, the number of times I have had to restore a Mac from a backup is exactly zero. I keep backups, and someday I will probably need to use them, but I haven't yet. I spend at least 4 hrs a day on the computer and have done so for 22 years, on 7 different Macs, and 2 different Windows machines. The only times I have needed a backup was on the Dell and the Toshiba. The Dell was never fixed, the Toshiba needed to be restored because they felt that in the process of replacing my bad motherboard it would be a good idea to reformat my drive. Be happy with your choice, I am with mine.

Mac