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Author Topic: IEM Mixes with effects  (Read 3508 times)

Jason Grooms

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IEM Mixes with effects
« on: February 17, 2011, 06:56:55 pm »

How are you all going about creating IEM mixes with effects?  It's easy enough to create a montior mix using a pre-fade AUX send however, I've never figured out how to add an effect to this. 

I would really like to create an IEM mix for my band and be able to add reverb (for example) to the vocal(s) (or whatever other effect) but how?  I can't believe everyone's IEM mix are dry, so how are you all doing this?
« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 06:58:45 pm by jgrooms »
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Bob Charest

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Re: IEM Mixes with effects
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2011, 07:31:12 pm »

When I was using the Crest XRM, I was out of inputs, so I sent an aux from FOH (on vocs and a little on horns) back to a reverb and sent the wet signal into the common inputs and adjusted to an agreeable level.

Now with an LS9 a send to reverb from vocs and horns is returned back to the various mixes - much easier and more configurable.

Best regards,
Bob Charest
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Thomas Lamb

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Re: IEM Mixes with effects
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2011, 08:44:38 pm »

Return your fx into a Chanel instead of a return and turn it up in those sends butNOT back to itself.
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George Dougherty

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Re: IEM Mixes with effects
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2011, 10:53:49 pm »

This is one place where Software Audio Console rocks many other options out there.
I patch an instance of a reverb plugin across the output of each of my iem mixes.  Just enough wet blend to give the mix a sense of space but not so much that everything gets smeared around.  The reverb is then perfectly tailored to each iem mix.  I also have a few vocalists that use the Rolls boxes with the more-me dry mic input.  If they still want a wet vocal I use an aux on the channel instead and route their vocal only into the aux and not the monitor mix output then season to taste.

On an analog board, ditto, back into a full featured channel so you can route to all the auxes you need.
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Sean Chen

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Re: IEM Mixes with effects
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2011, 10:58:02 pm »

What mixer are you using? On A&H Mix Wiz3, I can adjust how much effect to add to Aux 1, Aux 2, Aux 3, and Aux 4.
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Tim Padrick

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Re: IEM Mixes with effects
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2011, 12:30:29 am »

I can't imagine using a reverb across a mix.  It can occasionally sound good, but often it's not good at all.  (Running a full mix through is a good way to test reverbs - most sound fine when fed one or two channels, but sound a complete mess when fed an entire mix.) 
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Jason Grooms

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Re: IEM Mixes with effects
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2011, 01:07:06 pm »

What mixer are you using? On A&H Mix Wiz3, I can adjust how much effect to add to Aux 1, Aux 2, Aux 3, and Aux 4.

I have to use a variety of mixers depending on where we are playing (size) however, that is going to change as I just purchased an Allen & Heath iLive system using an IDR-16 so I can pretty much take that anywhere, so let's use that as an example.  Considering I literally just purchased this I may not be able to speak to specifics about the board until I play more with the it however the routing on these systems is pretty extensive so I am sure it will be able to do whatever you all propose.

I am just looking for general concepts on how this acheived.  So far I am hearing a) return the effect to a channel and send the effect to the AUX of the IEM mix or b) place a reverb on the entire IEM buss and adjust to taste

Thanks for the feedback so far.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: IEM Mixes with effects
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2011, 01:06:31 am »

How are you all going about creating IEM mixes with effects?  It's easy enough to create a montior mix using a pre-fade AUX send however, I've never figured out how to add an effect to this.

I would really like to create an IEM mix for my band and be able to add reverb (for example) to the vocal(s) (or whatever other effect) but how?  I can't believe everyone's IEM mix are dry, so how are you all doing this?

You need to get a mix to the effect and then get the output of that effect into the aux that feeds the monitor.  For IEMs a dedicated (for the IEMS) effects send would be a very good thing.  I'm not familiar with the iLive, but my guess is you have plenty of auxes and a spare FX, and that effect return channel inputs can be sent to auxes like any conventional mono input.  Send the effects return to the Aux that feeds the IEMs, and no other aux.

You treat the effect for the IEMs just like you would for the house mix, only you return it to the IEM mix rather than L/R.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc
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George Dougherty

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Re: IEM Mixes with effects
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2011, 06:52:13 pm »

I can't imagine using a reverb across a mix.  It can occasionally sound good, but often it's not good at all.  (Running a full mix through is a good way to test reverbs - most sound fine when fed one or two channels, but sound a complete mess when fed an entire mix.)

It's used very sparingly and the intent is to just take the dry edge off the mix and put it back a sense of space.  Any amount of obvious reverb is way too much.  I've found many performers using iem's for the first time find a dry mix straight into their ears to be very unnatural.  I also use small to medium size room reverbs rather than big plate or hall reverbs.
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John Sulek

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Re: IEM Mixes with effects
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2011, 06:36:13 pm »

It's used very sparingly and the intent is to just take the dry edge off the mix and put it back a sense of space.  Any amount of obvious reverb is way too much.  I've found many performers using iem's for the first time find a dry mix straight into their ears to be very unnatural.  I also use small to medium size room reverbs rather than big plate or hall reverbs.

You might consider audience mics.
Depending on how loud the stage is and how much isolation you have from the main PA, they can add a sense of the performance space.
If you have a lot of open vocal mics, audience mics will be less effective.
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George Dougherty

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Re: IEM Mixes with effects
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2011, 11:05:50 am »

We do though it's just a single stage mic.  I'd like to add specific audience mics but there are a number of other higher priority items in the budget.  Problem is that in order for the band to use the ambient mic for onstage communication without pulling the headphones out, it has to be compressed and turned up by an amount that makes it problematic while playing.  As a result, I reverse gate it so the volume drops about 15-20db and the acoustically delayed signal doesn't cause smearing problems in the IEM mix.

In SAC, a reverb is just another plugin instance, of which I have as many as I'd ever want.  It's really not a problem and the results are superb.  Outside of SAC, audience mics would probably be the best way to go and are on our list of things to add.
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Loren Aguey

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Re: IEM Mixes with effects
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2011, 03:47:57 pm »

This is one place where Software Audio Console rocks many other options out there.

Hi George,

How exactly does the SAC interface with the console? I didn't see anything about hardware on the site so I'm confused as to how you're routing the FX to the console.
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Jason Grooms

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Re: IEM Mixes with effects
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2011, 04:27:48 pm »

The SAC systems seems very similair (conceptually) to the Allen & Heath iLive system.  You can get into the iLive system for as low as $5,000 (mixing from a laptop).  If you like this concept but want the ability to scale up to full blown work surface I'd also check out the A&H system in addition to SAC.

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George Dougherty

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Re: IEM Mixes with effects
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2011, 11:57:22 am »

Hi George,

How exactly does the SAC interface with the console? I didn't see anything about hardware on the site so I'm confused as to how you're routing the FX to the console.

SAC is a mixer in the box.  It's roots stem from RML Lab's SAW product that's been in studio use for decades though SAC is redesigned for a live performance workflow and performance.  At it's core, it's a Windows based computer stripped down and tweaked for best real-time performance, studio interfaces and preamps of your choice to meet the needs or budget, and the SAC application ties it all together into a mixing console. 

It is somewhat similar to the iLive system though all remotes (up to 28) are networked rather than running off a dedicated hardware connection.  Several control surface options are available and the product continues to improve with each update.

FX are either SAW/SAC native plugins, DirectX, or VST plugins.  Plugins must be zero latency adding.  Every input, virtual aux/return and output channel has both pre and post fader patch points with the option to re-locate the input channel pre-fade patch points pre-EQ/Dynamics.
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