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Author Topic: Feedback  (Read 1707 times)

Jon Dorfax

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Feedback
« on: March 02, 2006, 10:43:59 PM »

When the artists are on stage, it can be hard to ring out the monitors because of their anger over hearing the feedback. If one doesn't have time to ring out the monitors before the show, is it common to ring them out while they play? For example, you could bring up the monitor level on a mic until you hear a slight ringing in the headphones, when the headphone level is turned up pretty loud. Is this kind of ringing out really frowned upon? This has a tendency to create a really loud feedback loop suddenly, when the feedback has been pretty soft and intermittent for a while, (upwards of 20-30 seconds.) If the monitors are brought down again, after the slight ringing occurs, and then brought up again, will this stop the sudden feedback from happening, because the feedback adds onto itself?
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RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS

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Re: Feedback
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2006, 10:53:06 PM »

The monitors should be rung out (ringed out?) before the artists get to the stage.  If they come onto the stage before you have time to ring them out then you need to tell them to come back or they will not have the full output of the monitors.  You should be able to pull down frequencies as needed during the performance but if you do a good job before hand then that probably won't come up.
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Ryan Jenkins
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Tim Hawn

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Re: Feedback
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2006, 11:45:15 PM »

Quote:

When the artists are on stage, it can be hard to ring out the monitors because of their anger over hearing the feedback.


Don't ever try to ring monitors out during a show.
I repeat:
Don't ever try to ring monitors out during a show.
Feedback hurts, hence the angry musicians.

Quote:

If one doesn't have time to ring out the monitors before the show, is it common to ring them out while they play?


No.

Quote:

For example, you could bring up the monitor level on a mic until you hear a slight ringing in the headphones, when the headphone level is turned up pretty loud. Is this kind of ringing out really frowned upon?


Brother, I don't know how you're getting feedback through your headphones, but that can't be good.  Yes, things that can make you go deaf are frowned upon.

Quote:

This has a tendency to create a really loud feedback loop suddenly, when the feedback has been pretty soft and intermittent for a while, (upwards of 20-30 seconds.) If the monitors are brought down again, after the slight ringing occurs, and then brought up again, will this stop the sudden feedback from happening, because the feedback adds onto itself?


Jon, it sounds to me like you're experimenting with feedback during shows.  If you can't ring out the monitors before a show, you have to accept the fact that they probably won't be loud enough.  Don't turn them up if you if you know they're going to feed back, especially if you haven't honed your graphic EQ skills.  Do some practicing and ear training on your own.  You can learn how to ring out mons quickly so that no one has to worry about it during a performance.

-TH      


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Duane Massey

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Re: Feedback
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2006, 01:54:57 AM »

This is somewhat like asking, "If I didn't have time to pack my parachute before the plane took off, can I pack it after I jump out?"
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Duane Massey
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Brian Adams

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Re: Feedback
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2006, 11:16:31 PM »

I have occasionally had to finish ringing out monitors after the show started.  I would never try to completely ring them out after showtime, but for the occasional no-time-for-soundcheck show, you do what you can.  Usually I'll wait until the band breaks for a second after the first song, get the monitors up until they just start to go, and cut that frequency back.  If there's any more than one frequency, or maybe 2 that are going a little, there's just no way.  Wait until a set break or something, if that.  Nobody likes to hear feedback, especially the band.  But again, doing this during the show is a last resort, and only works for minor tweaking.  If you haven't had a chance to ring out the monitors at all beforehand, you're screwing yourself.  Have them hold the doors, for a few minutes or something.  People will be less angry that they have to wait a little longer than if they have to listen to screeching feedback all night long.

FWIW, when I'm running monitors from FOH, which seems to happen all too often with those no-soundcheck shows, Smaart really helps me hear what's going on back at the stage, and I don't have to get the feedback loud enough to hear, just loud enough to see on the screen.
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charles clark

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Re: Feedback
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2006, 11:33:54 PM »

Tim Hawn wrote on Fri, 03 March 2006 04:45



Quote:

For example, you could bring up the monitor level on a mic until you hear a slight ringing in the headphones, when the headphone level is turned up pretty loud. Is this kind of ringing out really frowned upon?


Brother, I don't know how you're getting feedback through your headphones, but that can't be good.


I don't have a problem hearing it in the headphones using the AFL button on the monitor send. It's just like having a cue wedge..it's a fair representation of what is coming out of the speaker on the stage.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Feedback
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2006, 12:37:45 AM »

Jon Dorfax wrote on Thu, 02 March 2006 21:43

When the artists are on stage, it can be hard to ring out the monitors because of their anger over hearing the feedback. If one doesn't have time to ring out the monitors before the show, is it common to ring them out while they play? For example, you could bring up the monitor level on a mic until you hear a slight ringing in the headphones, when the headphone level is turned up pretty loud. Is this kind of ringing out really frowned upon? This has a tendency to create a really loud feedback loop suddenly, when the feedback has been pretty soft and intermittent for a while, (upwards of 20-30 seconds.) If the monitors are brought down again, after the slight ringing occurs, and then brought up again, will this stop the sudden feedback from happening, because the feedback adds onto itself?


I made feedback on purpose for few years while demo'ing FLS EQ's. In my experience if you keep a hand on the channel fader (monitor send?) you can ride the gain and carefully control the onset and volume of the feedback. Of course if you're at FOH you need to be listening to the monitors with cans so you can hear the onset of the feedback. It's not ideal to do this on the fly but there is some merit to having the meat puppets standing at the microphones for best GBF when they're standing at the microphones.  

JR
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Patrick Tracy

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Re: Feedback
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2006, 01:42:24 AM »

You should ring out the monitors before the band goes on for soundcheck.

That said, things change during a set and you have to be prepared. When you have some free time, not at a gig, set up your graphic and pass all kinds of signals through it. CDs, microphones, guitars, whatever. Using headphones and speakers, play with all the sliders on the graphic. Do it with all the sources and both speakers and phones until you know all the frequencies intimately.

Then, during a show when you start to hear feedback you'll have a better idea where the problem lies. You can home in on the offender by going through several sliders on the graphic. A quick up-down motion on the right one will reveal the ringing and let you cut it right away.
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