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[David A. Parker]

I just got a tech rider that listed mackie as an acceptable console and then added, "No Peavey". Now that's messed up, peavey has SOME consoles that are much better than SOME mackie. The whole rider was "No Peavey". Peavey makes a ton of money off their niche, but I sympathize with them, they try to deliver and do deliver the next step up and nobody believes them.

[Ryan Lantzy]

RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS wrote on Sat, 05 November 2005 12:34

Gear Snobs are so rediculous.  I wish all of the BEs would have to buy their own gear and maintain it and use it and then after a couple years of that then they might realize that brand name meens nothing! I had one BE for a "major touring" punk band tell me that Brand X consoles don't have enough headroom.  I of course was providing a Brand X console for the gig.  I told him that if they had enough clout to play venues with more P.A. than they use in rehersal and if they would keep their stage volume lower then they would have no issues with headroom.  As it turns out with my P.A. there was no issues with headroom even with their stupid loud stage volume.  Imagine that, use more then two speakers on sticks and give 'em 10,000 watts and they can't complain.

While headroom is a concern, I think it has NOTHING to do with stage volume and everything to do with DYNAMICS.  The more dynamic the musicians, the more headroom you will need.  There is a very good example of this in the Yamaha sound Reinforcement handbook.

The example is basically, you normally have system X but tonight, you have system Y with 20 dB less S/N ratio.  How can you do the show with out losing the quiet stuff over the crowd.  The answer was compressing the mix.  A less capable console will have noiser mic pre's and less head room all contributing to a poor S/N ratio.  However, it's a fix, but it's not what I would come into a gig *askiing* for.  "Can I have a Peavey board with mic pres with only 70 dB of S/N ratio and only 15 dBu output and a compressor."  How dumb does that sound?  While yes, you can get by, and the show goes on, it's not ideal, nor what would be asked for.

I learned first hand what dynamics were the first time I miced a choir.  Try it sometime.  Watch how red the console goes on the first crescendo.  What you'll end up doing, is lowering the mic inputs and boosting the output or raisng the gains on the amps, and then when the choir gets quieter they will be buried in hissssssssssssss.  Or insert some compression.  Either way it's a compromise.

[Mike Butler (media)]

RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS wrote on Sat, 05 November 2005 12:34

Gear Snobs are so rediculous.  I wish all of the BEs would have to buy their own gear and maintain it and use it and then after a couple years of that then they might realize that brand name meens nothing!

True, and not just in pro audio but in every creative field. There are those gear snobs who diss the Canon XL1 as being mere "prosumer" but I have traveled all over the country with mine and made plenty of money using it, with everything in my viewfinder from corporate CEOs to Carmen Electra and Dave Navarro. Sure, I would love to be slinging a $60,000 HD cam, but it's not in the budget and the work will never justify it. Yes it has shortcomings (like no rack focus with the stock lens) but you work with it, and it will do what it was designed to do if used properly, and I have always gotten compliments from clients about the videos I have created, and--most importantly--have always gotten paid.

And Peavey gear has worked well for me...of course, I have some clients to whom all brand names are meaningless anyway...unless you are talking about Prada, Gucci, Armani, Dom Perignon, BMW, Rolex, etc.  

[Ryan Lantzy]

One other point.

I know that there is some gear that should be perfectly acceptable by anyone who knows anything about it.  However, many BEs are not gearheads like us.  They don't know ever make and model of mixer,compressor,amp,speaker made over the last 25 years.  They also don't have experience with everone out there.

They know what works for their band.  They know that companies like EAW, Soundcraft, A&H, Midas, Community, Trubo, Nexo, JBL, etc, etc. make the some of the top end gear out there.  They also know that Makie, Peavey, Carvin, and Behringer don't.  They make good to great MI gear, and some mediocre pro gear that may be a good value.

[Marc Schwartz]

I see that my tongue in cheek reply hit a nerve. I get quite a few riders that specify
the artist either requests or carries a Crest console. My response was more or less
an attempt at levity, but I guess I got my point across. I have never had anything
against Peavey equipment. In fact, I have a healthy respect for them, especially because I spent a good part of my career mixing on Peavey boards, and often using
Peavey amps and speakers too. In the bars and clubs, this was typical for the times, and if you were a decent soundguy, you could make a decent gig happen even with less than stellar stuff. If the gear works, you should be able to do at least a marginally adequate job. That said, I would rather use the more expensive better quality gear, but the situation and budget often do not allow for it. I am not an "A" circuit provider or even an "A" circuit BE, but I realize that on at that level, the gear does make the difference between a nightmarishly long day and an easy one.

-Marc

[RobertOziemkowski]

D. Parker wrote on Sat, 05 November 2005 18:03

I just got a tech rider that listed mackie as an acceptable console and then added, "No Peavey". Now that's messed up, peavey has SOME consoles that are much better than SOME mackie. The whole rider was "No Peavey". Peavey makes a ton of money off their niche, but I sympathize with them, they try to deliver and do deliver the next step up and nobody believes them.

IMO, that is when YOU contact the BE and state your case!

Many times you'll find that "No Peavey" simply means that they've been burnt by a bottom feeder, with a piece of gear that should have been in burried in a land fill!

[RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS]

Ryan,

My statement about the loud stage volume is representative of a "perceived" lack of head room of "Brand X".  The BE was always having to push the boards to the point of clipping to even get close to keeping up with the stage volume.  Therefore he thought the board didn't have enough headroom.  When presented with a P.A. that could handle the stage volume he didn't need to come close to clipping.  I personally believe Brand X has plenty of headroom and he fighting a losing battle and blaming it on the Brand X consoles rather than the stage volume.

He was blaming this on Brand X becuae most venues they played used them and just by coincidence they usually had smaller P.A.s also.  

[Andy Peters]

RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS wrote on Sat, 05 November 2005 10:34

I had one BE for a "major touring" punk band tell me that Brand X consoles don't have enough headroom.

I've found that many people just don't know the meaning of the word "headroom."  

They'll correlate the fact that there's not enough PA (meaning speakers and amps) to do the gig with the fact that they're running the console into clip, and complain, "this console has no headroom."  

Or they'll cut out everything between DC and daylight on the house graphic and run the console into clip to compensate, and say, "this console has no headroom."

Or they'll double- and triple-assign busses and run the console into clip, and say, "this console has no headroom."

-a

[Mike Butler (media)]

I can hardly wait for some know-nothing to have a run-in with someone who was mixing on an A&H (or choose your favorite prestige brand here) and had problems through no fault of the console (or maybe was using a defective unit), and then write a "No Alan & Heeth" clause in the rider (misspelling intentional, they tend to misspell the brands they don't like: "Macky," "Makie," etc.). Won't the shit hit the fan!

[RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS]

Andy Peters wrote on Sat, 05 November 2005 13:02

RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS wrote on Sat, 05 November 2005 10:34 I had one BE for a "major touring" punk band tell me that Brand X consoles don't have enough headroom. I've found that many people just don't know the meaning of the word "headroom."   They'll correlate the fact that there's not enough PA (meaning speakers and amps) to do the gig with the fact that they're running the console into clip, and complain, "this console has no headroom."   Or they'll cut out everything between DC and daylight on the house graphic and run the console into clip to compensate, and say, "this console has no headroom." Or they'll double- and triple-assign busses and run the console into clip, and say, "this console has no headroom." -a

Thats my exact point Andy.  You nailed it.