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Author Topic: Verona for Church?  (Read 8451 times)

Dave Mallon

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Re: Verona for Church?
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2004, 08:27:50 AM »

Another thing to think of if people of different skill levels are mixing is "With the level of expertese we have, is this console actually going to make any real difference, or is it just a new toy?"

We have a GL3300.  It does the job & sounds fine.  

I took over the system and am modifying it slowly as pieces die or just sound bad.  

Previously we would have bought Behringer, but I'm replacing with nicer and better, but I think it's a balancing act between Quality & value.

I would love a Soundcraft or a Midas, a rack of drawmer comps & gates and avalon pre amps, but don't think that it would make ENOUGH of a difference to justify the expenditure.

But maybe that's just me.

I mean, we're still on 58s, and will be for a while (they were replaced shortly before I was around)although we do have a few Beta 57s...

Just my thoughts.

Dave Mallon

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Dan Timon

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Re: Verona for Church?
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2004, 09:15:32 AM »

gainreduction wrote on Tue, 07 September 2004 00:47

So what we're all saying is this:  If you've been using a 58 forever on vocals, and it works just fine, there is no need to upgrade?  Seriously, aren't we all gearheads in here?  I changed out my 58's for other mics a long time ago and it significantly improved vocal clarity, tonality, rejection, etc. etc.  (I may not want to hammer nails with 'em though)

Same with the GL.  It works fine sure, but I'd love to make it my monitor board or something and free up my auxes for FX.  Just because 95% of people in the world have no idea what sounds good doesn't mean that Third Day is gonna mix on a Mackie..  They want the best to give the best.  

Everyone else in the world wants to stay on top of what's happening, with what the latest is; but it seems like because we're in the church, we're supposed to just 'make due' or something.  Why is that?


Nobody said that you have to have second best because you are a church. With the minimal advice you supplied, I would have made similar recommendations to a bar owner (other than the verbage about small groups and ministry Very Happy ). And for the sake of perspective, I mix monitors on a church PA system, where I drive a H3k and have 30 channels of Drawmer dynamics at my disposal.

If your church needs a monitor board, I would recommend a proper monitor board instead of a GL, simply because you will very quickly need more mixes than a GL can supply. When our church upgraded from the 4-mixes-from-FOH world, we bought an SM12, and were quickly limited by the 14 mixes we could patch together from it. If your inevitable campaign to get more people on IEMs is successful, you will quickly develop a need for stereo mixes for them.

If, on the other hand you have a rapidly growing youth ministry, with seperate services and no appropriate PA, it would be an excellent way to properly use the GL, and the argument could be made for a Verona at FOH.

Regarding your supporting arguments: (1)I would never want a mic locker that had no 58s in it, but I would want some other choices for vocals in addition to them. (2) It is hard to predict what a national artist wants. We have had a few come around that preferred their 01v96 to our H3k at FOH. The BE sometimes just wants to be comfortable.

Regards,

Dan Timon
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andrew gissing

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Re: Verona for Church?
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2004, 08:14:54 PM »

I think the point about making do, 58's and Third Day and so.. for me comes down to how much can you spend at once.

It's pretty easy to replace 58's a few at a time - but changing console might require finance.

In our circumstances, this week I had to advise church that we needed a new wireless mic (we've got another building that one is needed for) and the best plan of attack was to rotate mics and get the new one for our main place of worship.

However, our choices came down to a 58 or 87c transmitter (we already have a spare receiver) - and for a $500AU difference, I explained that in our current auditorium (world's worst acoustics) nobody will tell the difference, but in the new place we're building, people will.

So that's not a case of saying go cheap every time. The thing that's very concious in my mind is that the money we spend on things audio - that's money that came out of people's pockets - not customers but congregation and for that reason alone, we've got more responsibility to spend wisely.

For my PA business, I can justify to my wife that going for a verona over the venice was a way better choice and will lead to more money coming in the door. That kind of logic mostly won't apply in churchs. Obviously bad sound will put people off coming, and really fantastic sound might be a drawcard - but only a might.

andrew
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chasetower

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VCA's????
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2004, 02:49:01 PM »

Hey Mike S.
I hope you do realize that you use VCA's the same you do use groups. They have differnet functions and such but how you use them is exactly the same. I use Veronas and I use H3000's and PM4000's, its exactly the same. Groups have outputs VCA's don't.
I'm sure you have "researched" this subject. But that is a poor reason why to pick a non-vca desk. Anyways thats my 2 bits.

Chase
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Mike Sveda

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Re: VCA's????
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2004, 03:04:21 PM »

I am just saying that some BE's that come in couldn't assign a VCA group if their life depended on it.......

At the price point we were looking at the only VCA desks would have been the A&H ML3000 and Yamaha M3000A.

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Dave San Souci

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Re: Verona for Church?
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2004, 01:46:31 PM »

We just installed a Verona 480 in our new auditorium . It's just wonderful big improvement  from the Yamaha we were using. For the money it's hard to beat nice Eq 's and Mic pre's very musical. Like you would expect from Midas.I look at several consoles before picking the Verona a digital console was out of the question we weren't going to pay 50k or more for one. Can I say something that will justify your church buying one know. If your AH is working and doing the job then keep it. New toy's are nice but not always necessary. In my case the Yamaha was beat channels were going bad and I was tired of fixing it. We have had it for 12 years it was just time for a new. There was many times I went to my pastor to lobby for a new console in the pass and was turn down. It was worth the wait in my opinion.


Dave
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Mike Sveda

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Re: Verona for Church? MIKE S., HERE'S YOUR CHANCE!
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2004, 08:25:24 AM »

Quote:

the sky will be brighter, and the birds will sing prettier


The sky is still bright and the birds still sing very pretty!!!
Very Happy
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chasetower

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Re: VCA's????
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2004, 01:43:10 PM »

Mike S
Why can't you show the BE's how to assign the VCA's. If you were a "true" technician you would be right there beside the BE showing him how to use the desk. At least thats what I would do as a systems technician......thats what i do(my profession). I own alot of desks and know how to use them and I am open to show any BE how to use the desk no matter what level he is at.

Chase
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yam4000vca Jim Gould

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Re: VCA's????
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2004, 02:23:03 PM »

I agree that it is no harder to assign a VCA than a subgroup.
If the person to mix does not have experience with VCAs and they want to use them I think it is a very simple thing to show them.
Now if you purchased a mixer for other reasons that is fine but because somebody does not know how to assign it then they probably do not have a handle on sub groups either.
To me it is easier to explain a VCA on a stereo system than using subgroups as long as you do not have to insert on the subs.
I can not think of one higher level show that I have done that I had the need for inserting across a subgroup. The only time I ever do it is when running smaller systems doing monitors from foh. I usually insert a comp and an eq because once I get the monitors set I do not want to adjust on the channel changing the monitors.
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Stuie

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Re: VCA's????
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2004, 09:02:24 PM »

Hi Steve

I have driven the GLs and love them for there ability to do everything under the sun. But i only driven the veronas and smaller midas desk and found the pre amps to be much nicer and the equing to be little kinder. The pre amps where the big difference and a simple 58 sound better than before.

Is a sound company willing to A/B the different desks in your church? it would be much better in a sales pitch if you can convince them with a in house situation.

Personally the midas is a excellent FOH desk but not good in using it as FOH and Foldback desk. Navigation will take about 5minutes to get used to and you should by some sunglasses thoese midas boys love colour, Just buy a manditory hawaian t shirt and some sunnies and you fit right in.

Cheers
Stuie

PS No i dont wear Hawaian t shirts
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Re: VCA's????
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2004, 09:02:24 PM »


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