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Author Topic: BEs Over-EQing Rooms  (Read 10277 times)

Adam Robinson

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Re: BEs Over-EQing Rooms
« Reply #50 on: November 01, 2005, 08:53:07 pm »

Christian Seger wrote on Tue, 01 November 2005 18:31

Geri, you dragged me into this one.  I've composed and erased 3 posts already that were going to read: Do we really  need to bash the BE?s again?  I decided each time not to post because I like Adam and did not want to join the fray in attack mode.  He is a good guy and he keeps his gear clean and operating right.  But my feelings on this are quite strong.  


Thanks, Christian.  I do want to insert, that I started this thread not to BE bash, but to just show what has been happening too often lately.  I am a BE, too, and frankly would rather be on the road doing that right now than doing club work - I just enjoy it more.  

I should have added another comment at the very beginning and that is:  as I am working more and more with my DSP and computer analysis, I'm tweaking what started as a very basic crossover setting.  Regardless, of the shows I've worked recently, a lot of the engineers over EQ the room (in my opinion.)  Do I consider this might be part of a bad setting in the crossover? Yes.  I've spent a lot of time wondering whether I've set something wrong or whether it's just the level of expertise a lot of the engineers we see are at (a lot, not all).  I think I have a good ear, and my mixes are regularly complimented, so I don't think that I can be all wrong.  

I also gauge it off of the guest engineers that come in.  The last couple of shows that I can say "sounded great" had EQ curves similar to mine.  We all mix things to our own personal taste/style.  My final goal will be that any EQing I do for this room will be simply to shape the sound to they way I like it.  

Quote:

I think this community is entirely too tolerant of the BE bashing.  One poster in this thread used the word ?fucktard.?  How many times has the house guy posting been unable to omit the words another primadonna  in front of the initials BE on this forum?  
Are all the road guys really walking around with their noses in the air asking you to defeat limiters and blowing your shit up?   Do you folks that piss and moan about primadonnafuctard BE?s not realize that we work at home in our own crappy house gigs and for our small regional providers?  That touring engineers deal with other less experienced, less professional mixers with the other acts on a bill every day?  Does their status as a Band Engineer make them fuctardprimadonna to you?

Meanwhile I don?t see a lot of posts from road guys beating down the guy that bought a trailer full of PA and went into business without a shred of experience and landed the state fair?s account.  Nor do I see their posts about how the pimply kid that flies the A&H at the A market rock club blew their mix with his shit ass PA and crust filled wedges and Radioshack insert harness and broken mic stands and one legged cables and ? working snake and power stripped amp racks etc???????..Rant Off.

Then there?s that EQ,  Well, my primadonna ass would have been running Adam through his system component by component if preliminary analysis indicated I would need EQ that extreme.  



And Christian did at one time - haha - I can remember a very green me and some Crest 8001s that were acting up at a club I used to work at.  It's usually days like those, though, that we are all forced to learn something at 100x the usual pace.  They become my more valued experiences.

When I'm on the road, I just remember all those days I was having PA problems thanks (or not so much so) to our previous provider who had gear in the club unable of supporting the kinds of shows that we were doing.  I remember how I felt in those situations and on the road act knowing that I've been in that position, and will probably be in it again.  As a BE, I never get mad at the house guy for something out of his control. At the same time, if I came into a room and had to do that much EQing (from the original picture), I'd probably do the same thing Christian would.  
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Ken Freeman

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Re: BEs Over-EQing Rooms
« Reply #51 on: November 01, 2005, 08:59:41 pm »

Christain, I thank you for putting another face on this.  There are many highly skilled and great people in this business.  As I noted in my rant a few pages up, I have come full circle on this.  If you come into my venue, know what you want and have your shit together, I will move mountains getting it for you.  If you don't, or are not sure, but are open for advice, I will help you figure it out.  If you are 2 hours late, act like a fool, are stoned and forgot half your bands quarter inch cables on your show last night, Guitar Center is downtown and have a great day!

I know it sound crazy, but I care to a fault.  I advance my gigs down to the outboard gear patching order, (tall, medium or short?) mic stands, how the sub snakes will lay out and all of the power to the A/C boxes on stage.  I work with some of the best and fastest crews around and frankly, if you can't get your band to sound there best on a rig that I put out, you should not be doing this for a living.

Adam is just getting to the point where he still thinks this is funny.

See you soon?

Ken
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Bennett Prescott

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Re: BEs Over-EQing Rooms
« Reply #52 on: November 01, 2005, 09:40:02 pm »

Ken Freeman wrote on Tue, 01 November 2005 20:59

I know it sound crazy, but I care to a fault.  I advance my gigs down to the outboard gear patching order, (tall, medium or short?) mic stands, how the sub snakes will lay out and all of the power to the A/C boxes on stage.


God, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one this neurotic ;)It sure helps, though!
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Marc Schwartz

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Re: BEs Over-EQing Rooms
« Reply #53 on: November 01, 2005, 09:42:30 pm »

After reading this thread from original post all the way through the replies so far, I am struck by the fact that this issue hits a nerve with so many LABsters. Much has been said here in the past about professional conduct in the workplace, and IMHO, this thread has revealed a lot about the character of the people who post here. While we have wide differences of opinion about the "right way" to do things, most of seem to be in agreement about how to do sound the wrong way.  Many years in the trenches of live audio as both a house guy and as BE road guy, has given me some perspective on the issue of how to behave on the job. The EQ curve in the original post is an abortion, but I didn't hear what was coming out of the PA, and I have no idea what the BE was thinking when he came up with the curve as a solution to whatever he thought was wrong with the sound. When I am in the provider role, I do my best to find out what the BE is looking for, starting with the advance for the show. If I can get a feel for what they want, I do my best to provide a rig in a configuration that will make that happen for them. When I am dealing with one of my peers, this usually results in a easy production day for everyone. When I am dealing with guys who don't return my phone calls, it is a lot harder. When I was on the road, I made every effort to reach the provider or house guy and have a heads-up on what to expect. Doug has a point too, you can expect a gig to suck, but I would rather do whatever I can to avoid that. When a gig sucks, more often than not, the provider ends up taking the blame. Too often, we are the convenient scapegoats. It is a lot easier as a BE to blame the venue or provider for having a bad gig, than to admit it was their own fault. You can't really blame a BE for trying to protect their job when things go wrong. No one wants to get fired or called out for being incompetent, it is not only embarrasing, it can ruin you financially. Most of us have worked very hard to get where we are. Above all else, that is the hallmark of the true professionals.

-Marc
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Christian Seger

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Re: BEs Over-EQing Rooms
« Reply #54 on: November 01, 2005, 09:46:32 pm »

Ken, I think from the moment shows are advanced with folks like you  they are a success.  I rarely get the wrong impression of a soundguy during an advance.  Whether its my house or I am the guest.  The good ones are honest about their system's limitaions and the bad ones blow smoke.  They all blow the same smoke too.  Its like they got a manual free when the left the musical instrument store with their PA.  "Well, (insert Rock and Roll Dinosaur name here) was here last week and it was fine for him."

Man, that sentence sends chills up my spine.  Nothing screams your fucked like that one.  

Now don't fault me when I'm late, I only ride on that bus. Laughing

I have been to the houses of this thread's posters Lee Brenkman, Jason Dermer, Adam, and Geri (although Geri appears to live in a Gypsy rodeo arena of some sort) and they all run very tight ships.  I look forward to working in your homes again soon.
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Geri O'Neil

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Re: BEs Over-EQing Rooms
« Reply #55 on: November 01, 2005, 10:45:00 pm »

Christian Seger wrote on Tue, 01 November 2005 20:46

I have been to the houses of this thread's posters Lee Brenkman, Jason Dermer, Adam, and Geri (although Geri appears to live in a Gypsy rodeo arena of some sort) and they all run very tight ships.  I look forward to working in your homes again soon.



Hey, we just happened to meet up in the rodeos your ex-boss got booked in... Laughing

Have you checked out the "dirt floor" thread somewhere else around here, maybe the Basement or the Lounge? Man, those guys would hate our world, eh?... Twisted Evil

They would also hate the rituals before and after those gigs as well. During the season, those rituals are about 20% of my income! I'm growing kind of weary of them myself.

Let us know who you're going out with next, Christian.
See ya down the road,

Geri O

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Sully

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Re: BEs Over-EQing Rooms
« Reply #56 on: November 01, 2005, 11:44:28 pm »

Christian Seger wrote on Tue, 01 November 2005 18:31


Meanwhile I don’t see a lot of posts from road guys beating down the guy that bought a trailer full of PA and went into business without a shred of experience and landed the state fair’s account.  Rant Off.




Cool
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Ken Freeman

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Re: BEs Over-EQing Rooms
« Reply #57 on: November 02, 2005, 12:42:42 am »

Thanks for being a grown up Marc!  I think this post is symbolic of the kind of passion we all feel for doing the right thing and doing it well.  My hat is off to all of you that have spent the time to read or write (or re-write) a little of this.

Adam, did you really think your smart-alec picture would start such a shit-storm?  Now, I gotta know, who was the band that brought in your guest star engineer?

Ken
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