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[John Roberts {JR}]

Brian J. Troup Jr. wrote on Thu, 18 May 2006 10:17

I change Crossover setting on site because every venue is different. Don't you?

I would be inclined to set the crossover based on the speaker's needs and then use general EQ to deal with room differences.

Back when I made crossovers, I would sometimes offer models without knobs (screwdriver adj only) to nudge the customer to set once and not fiddle.

JR

[Brian J. Troup Jr.]

Having to continually clarify myself is becoming quite taxing, but I will do it anyway.
Typically I run stereo 4 way system Each range has it's own set of cabinets in my system, not simply bottoms and tops. I have mid-bass cabs, mid-range cabs, blah, blah blah.
So in each venue, If I decide to change the configuration of the speakers I am using, or if I am in an odd room, such as dual stages tristacked, or whether or not I fly the cluster and center cluster the subs, or what ever the heck I need to do, having to adjust delays and gains becomes a must. (Man I hope I don't have to explain this again)

Now is there anyone else that wishes to try an educate me? Holy Crapp! I like advice but scheeeezzz...

I never bought a unit that needed a screwdriver to adjust it. Never will! (Yes I fiddle with knobs)

DRPA=poop no matter how you like your poop sliced.

As for the reply about the comments Andy made, I guess you missed my point too. But then again he didn't call you a "Troll".

[John Roberts {JR}]

Brian J. Troup Jr. wrote on Fri, 19 May 2006 09:45

Having to continually clarify myself is becoming quite taxing, but I will do it anyway. Typically I run stereo 4 way system Each range has it's own set of cabinets in my system, not simply bottoms and tops. I have mid-bass cabs, mid-range cabs, blah, blah blah. So in each venue, If I decide to change the configuration of the speakers I am using, or if I am in an odd room, such as dual stages tristacked, or whether or not I fly the cluster and center cluster the subs, or what ever the heck I need to do, having to adjust delays and gains becomes a must. (Man I hope I don't have to explain this again) Now is there anyone else that wishes to try an educate me? Holy Crapp! I like advice but scheeeezzz... I never bought a unit that needed a screwdriver to adjust it. Never will! (Yes I fiddle with knobs) DRPA=poop no matter how you like your poop sliced. As for the reply about the comments Andy made, I guess you missed my point too. But then again he didn't call you a "Troll".

Thank you for explaining your rationale.

My confusion arose from your comment "I change Crossover setting on site because every venue is different. Don't you? "

The fact that you routinely reconfiguring your system was not obvious (to me). Some inexperienced operators do indeed adjust crossover band-passes to crudely EQ their system. Clearly a less than optimal approach.

Of course the customer is always right, but I will continue my attempts to protect them from themselves. You apparently are comfortable dialing in your crossover on the fly, I don't know that everyone is that talented.

JR

[Brian J. Troup Jr.]

Ahhh. Now we are on the same page. I should have clarified myself even further so that everyone can understand these things. I am assuming that everyone knows that this unit is used for more than just controlling crossover points. Things like controlling air temperature compensation, gain structures, feedback suppression, peak and dip filtering, ect, ect, ect, can usually be overlooked when discussing Loudspeaker management. I can see how you were confused. My apologies to all who read that irrelevant statement.

I don't get it. Do all of you DRPA guys have a "Set it and Forget it" method when it comes to your loudspeaker management? I would have assumed that you all would want to utilize the technology before you to optimize every environment you are in. Isn't that what "presets" are for? I guess that is just me. Maybe you all are the "In House" in some club or something? That would make sense then. I dunno. I am just a troll.

It seems from all the flak I am getting standing up for this processor and how I use them that maybe perhaps not all of you are open to real opinion. It would seem that just because I use a product that works fantastic for me that I am condemned to hear about it from those who either don't know what they are talking about or those who think they know what's good for me.

PS. A screwdriver adjustment method can still be adjusted. I am not so sure you are protecting anyone from anything. To me, that is as safe for someone's system as the proverbial "Don't push this button" sign above the button. However if your crossover product designs are specific to a loudspeaker / amp combination and configuration, than perhaps permanent fixed crossover points are the way to go?

I appreciate all of your comments though.....

But back to the main thread.  Yes this Behringer DCX 2496 Loudspeaker management processor works fantastic for me on my FOH and monitor rigs. Much better than the DRPA for me IMHO.

[John Roberts {JR}]

Brian J. Troup Jr. wrote on Fri, 19 May 2006 12:45

Ahhh. Now we are on the same page. PS. A screwdriver adjustment method can still be adjusted. I am not so sure you are protecting anyone from anything. To me, that is as safe for someone's system as the proverbial "Don't push this button" sign above the button. However if your crossover product designs are specific to a loudspeaker / amp combination and configuration, than perhaps permanent fixed crossover points are the way to go?

It's impossible to reliably protect customers from themselves as they constantly evolve.

The use of screwdriver adjustments vs. knobs, is a gentle but not so subtle hint that some adjustments should no be made casually (are you sure you want to delete that file?).

I also have experience in install and rental markets where the system operator may not be capable of making such adjustments. I have even designed knob/pot shaft systems, where at the system integrator's discretion they can remove the knob entirely and insert a hole plug in it's place. Of course the clever idiot can always pop the hole plug and use one of the other knobs on the product to adjust it, but if you make it moderately difficult to screw up you can at least discourage the less motivated.

JR

[Mac Kerr]

Brian J. Troup Jr. wrote on Fri, 19 May 2006 13:45

Ahhh. Now we are on the same page. I should have clarified myself even further so that everyone can understand these things. I am assuming that everyone knows that this unit is used for more than just controlling crossover points. Things like controlling air temperature compensation, gain structures, feedback suppression, peak and dip filtering, ect, ect, ect, can usually be overlooked when discussing Loudspeaker management. I can see how you were confused. My apologies to all who read that irrelevant statement.

I would guess the idea was propagated by this statement:

Brian J. Troup Jr. wrote on Thu, 27 April 2006 16:39

Running back and forth to hear the crossover adjustments I made is reeediculaaaas. It might as well be analog!! DRPA = NO benefit over analog!!

or here:

Brian J. Troup Jr. wrote on Thu, 18 May 2006 11:17

I change Crossover setting on site because every venue is different. Don't you?

There may have been misunderstandings, but not without cause.

Mac

[Brian J. Troup Jr.]

I still don't see how those statements were the cause of anything. Especially name calling (Which is apparently OK in your eyes). Adjusting from the FOH It is what I do with the DCX 2496. If you don't or can't, that's your problem. But feel free to tell me how you do it. Perhaps your advice would be useful then.

There may have been a misunderstanding possibly because people feel the need to combat what I said, rather than reading what I said and accepting it as strong opinion. Instead, everyone must attempt to disprove what I say rather than rebutting with their own opinions and outlooks about the product at hand. Regurgitating the irrelevant topic of whether or not I choose to use my DSP rather than ignore it is a complete waste of time and only proves your in this thread for other reasons besides product review. A complete lack of adding useful conversation to the thread. Period.
I you wish to battle over who is doing the right or wrong things with their gear, or who is smarter than who, or who is a "Troll" or not, perhaps a PM would be in order. Attacking me for the purpose of public humiliation will only backfire, I assure you. (Specifically Andy, not you mac)

So with that said:
The Behringer DCX 2496 is an great leap above the DRPA when used like use them. I highly recommend them to ANYONE.

[Dave Dermont]

Mr. Troup,

It's nice you like advice. I have some for you. It's worth every penny you are paying for it too.

It has been my experience that the best way to keep from having to explain things over again is to explain them clearly the first time.

Also, the best way to keep from being called a troll is to not look, smell, or act like one.

You have posted in multiple forums about how wonderful the Behringer DCX thing is, including some places where it was not a topic of discussion. Then you posted links to eBay sales for that very same unit, including one that was unsolicited, and zapped by a moderator. (that would be me)

The post you made responding to Andy sounded like you were looking for a fist fight. This did not help your "I am not a troll" case too much. This post I also zapped, along with Andy's response.

Just because the DRPA does not have the feature set for your particular application does not mean it is not useful for people in less demanding situations. Stating it has "no advantage over analog" is untrue, misleading, and well...makes you look like a troll. When you add the posts that have links to a DCX for sale on eBay, what do you expect peolple to think?

We are open to all opinions here. We don't care much for trolls, or even regular humans who feel the need to act like trolls.

I hope I have explained myself clearly.

Thanks for participating.

[Brian J. Troup Jr.]

How wonderfuly clear you are sir. I can only hope my responses approche the clarity level you so effortlessly achieved.

I can only hope that you provide the same healthy advice for all those non-troll-ish gear owners who are attacking me because I talk highly of Behringer products. Thank you for pointing out that I enjoy posting good things about my experiences with Behringer products and that I advise and help them on where to get these products. Do you track the other peoples comments regarding the DRPA? How about Drawmer gear? I have some of their gear that I love also. Or should I refrain from making any comments regarding sound gear? You forgot to mention that I also always recommend the EWI stuff as well.

I didn't realize what I was saying put me in the "Troll" category. I was not aware this action defined me as troll-ish. Apparently my defnitioin of "Troll" is different than what is called out on this post. I was not aware this was against any of the rules either. My apologies to you. Thank you for taking the time to educate me. I am sure I will heed this advice next post.
Thank you for letting me know that it is OK to call others a "Troll" when they advise or comment repeatedly on the same gear pieces. At least now I know that it is an appropriate thing to do. Obviously since Andy did it without any recourse, and you did it to me as well, it must be the proper thing to do in that situation. Trust me when I say that I know how to learn a lesson. You only need to tell me once for me to learn.

Welp I gotta go. I have a show to do. I hope you all have a great weekend using your Behringer DCX2496's!! I know I will.

Mr. Troup

Oh, Ps. Andy, feel free to PM me if the fine moderator will allow it. My apology for attacking you. I did not know it was ok for you to call me a "Troll". Have a good day sir.

[Dave Dermont]

Brian J. Troup Jr. wrote on Fri, 19 May 2006 15:44

How wonderfuly clear you are sir. I can only hope my responses approche the clarity level you so effortlessly achieved. I can only hope that you provide the same healthy advice for all those non-troll-ish gear owners who are attacking me because I talk highly of Behringer products.

it seems you are filled with hope

Quote:

Thank you for pointing out that I enjoy posting good things about my experiences with Behringer products and that I advise and help them on where to get these products.

You are welcome

Quote:

Do you track the other peoples comments regarding the DRPA?

No

Quote:

How about Drawmer gear? I have some of their gear that I love also. Or should I refrain from making any comments regarding sound gear?

Last I checked, this is a pro audio forum, so comments regarding audio gear are generally welcome.

Quote:

You forgot to mention that I also always recommend the EWI stuff as well.

No, I did not forget, but thank's anyway.

Quote:

I didn't realize what I was saying put me in the "Troll" category. I was not aware this action defined me as troll-ish. Apparently my defnitioin of "Troll" is different than what is called out on this post. I was not aware this was against any of the rules either.

You seem to not be aware of an awful lot of stuff.

Quote:

My apologies to you. Thank you for taking the time to educate me.

Apology accepted, and you are welcome!

Quote:

I am sure I will heed this advice next post.

OK, then.

Quote:

Thank you for letting me know that it is OK to call others a "Troll" when they advise or comment repeatedly on the same gear pieces. At least now I know that it is an appropriate thing to do. Obviously since Andy did it without any recourse, and you did it to me as well, it must be the proper thing to do in that situation. Trust me when I say that I know how to learn a lesson. You only need to tell me once for me to learn. Welp I gotta go. I have a show to do. I hope you all have a great weekend using your Behringer DCX2496's!! I know I will. Mr. Troup Oh, Ps. Andy, feel free to PM me if the fine moderator will allow it. My apology for attacking you. I did not know it was ok for you to call me a "Troll". Have a good day sir.

Oh! Wait... I see, you are being witty! Possibly even trying your hand at sarcasm. I hope your audio skills are more finely honed than your sarcastic wit.

...I can only hope