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[Gaston Oberti]

hi everybody... what driver would be suitable for the punisher horn? from eminence or selenium, those are the brands available and affordable here in latin america...in uruguay... then JBL, but it is EXPENSIVE!!!
600u$s for a 2226???
i was thinking in the beta10 the one used in t24...
imagine

cheers! gaston

[Michael_Elliston¶]

gaston_pdu wrote on Wed, 28 September 2005 10:03

hi everybody... what driver would be suitable for the punisher horn? from eminence or selenium, those are the brands available and affordable here in latin america...in uruguay... then JBL, but it is EXPENSIVE!!! 600u$s for a 2226??? i was thinking in the beta10 the one used in t24... imagine cheers! gaston

A driver with very close T/s specifications. If you cant find one,then dont bother. The horn must match the driver.Perhaps witha modification a lab12 could be used. List some local drivers t/s specifications and we can see.

The beta10 is low power and low xmax,not ideal for high SPL midbass but -for musical reproduction it has its purposes.

There are other alternatives if its not possible.

[Gaston Oberti]

I was thinking in the beta10 because it is available and affordable, the lab12 will have to be directly imported from US, and it will cost maybe U$S 300 here. the beta will cost about U$S60.
i'm a student, that can be read a tight budget guy, so i want a hor for use as a sub for my bedroom.. i also was thinking a 10' version of the punisher, same dimentions but 2 inches less in width, to accomodate the beta10.
can someone provide some FREE good plans for a small 10' bass horn?
if not i think i will go with the modified punisher, under the bed, facing the room corner.. with the beta 10, will that be good?
thanks!

gaston

[Joe Jones]

Like Mike said, you can't just put any driver in any horn. It may work, it may not. Neither the Punisher nor T24 is a ten foot horn anyway. I think the Table Tuba might work, you should ask Bill. I'd be less concerned about getting plans for 'FREE' than getting plans that will work.

[Gaston Oberti]

I found a local dealer with Eminence Omega Pro 12. This driver will do it on the punisher horn? i don't know how to use hornresp, but if someone does, please can you send me the predicted response of the punisher with these driver?? thanks!!!
will be for small PA anyway

gaaston@gmail.com
gaston

[Mircea Bartic]

I have found that there are at least two drivers that will work in the punisher design

P-audio SD12 (NOT SD12EL)
Selenium WPU-1208

the p-audio woofer seems to beat the ciare in the design regarding performance

[Mircea Bartic]

Yes, it's possible that sd12 distorts a bit more than the ciare, but it;s also 2-3dB more efficient in this design

let's not forget that SD-12 is much more expensive than Ciare 12.00SW

[Johan Rademakers]

On what do you base this sensitivity increasment ones it's in the Punisher, measurement, simulation? Note that sensitivity calculated from the T/S-parameters as given by the manufacterer is not a valid way of predicting sensitivity in horn. The horn parameters dominate here.

Should we base driver performance on price rather than T/S-parameters?

With kind regards Johan

[Mircea Bartic]

Hi johan

My claims were based on Hornresp simulation
I know that the horn dominates , and the sensitivity measured on a infinite baffle stated by the manufacturer in irelevant in this case.

I should be able to take some real measuremets as soon as I have some spare time to build the 4 subs for which I already have drivers (sd12)


I have chose SD-12 for three reasons:

1. Ciare driver is not available here in Romania
2. the cost of shipping 4 units from England exceeded 1000euro (about $1200) including the units.
3. I am a distribuitor for P-audio in Romania, so the SD-12 was a better alternative for me (cheaper and available)

[Johan Rademakers]

Ah, Nexus (real names can be misleading sometimes)

I've seen your simulation from last year, it doesn't look like 3 dB to me. What has changed since then?

http://www.speakerplans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3174&a mp;KW=sd%2D12+punisher

With kind regards Johan

[Mircea Bartic]

Well the initiqal plot revealed only a 1-1.5 dB gain with the sd-12

but a  little tweaking of the back chamber gained me another 0.5dB

This ofcourse is all on paper , O am keen to see what the actual response will be

Anyway I am sure that power compression will be lower in my version

I am prepared to destroy a pair of Sd-12 just to find a way of lowering the powercompression and increase the powerhandling

the 12Pi suboofer comes to mind now...

[Mircea Bartic]

ok, I'm back

the system looks like this:

before painting



loading and testing ...

P-audio WN-15S - midbass
P-audio S8-38M - mid
Selenium D3300Ti DPD
Selenium HL-14-50 Horn


speakers loaded:

[Mircea Bartic]

SPL measurement at 6 meters


and a graph

please note that is only a rough estimate as the measurements were made in  indoor, so there are many  peaks and nulls caused by the room
The measurement microphone was placed in center, in the back ( at 6 meters, 30 degree angle from loudspeakers ),

not a 1W plot

[Mircea Bartic]

the first gig






I  don't have a Ciare for comparison, but it seems to be a bit more efficient
the kick section is definatelly more efficient than the 18sound because we have to cut 6 dB off the amp to stop them from blowing your head to pieces, and to align them with the other sections, in terms of spl


amplification is :

2xECLER DPA2000
2xECLER XPA5000
2xECLER AMIC Processor

the SD's are getting some 500W RMS/ each
everything is 4 way stereo

[Scott Waldy]

With out trying to sound naive   , what tops are those?

[Walt de Jong]

These tops are called 'X-tro'. They are a 3-way fully hornloaded cabinet of relatively small size. Original drivers are from B&C and 18Sound. Plans can be found at www.speakerstore.nl

Best regards,

Walt

[Jens Droessler]

Did you give the XTros a full measurement? Not only freq response I mean. Because if the low mid section seems to be much louder than with the original 15ND930, I guess there is actually something wrong, like a fat resonance in the low mid horn with this speaker. The difference shouldn't be THAT big at all.

Also, with the SD12 and its 5mm of Xmax, the output of the Punisher can be nowhere next to one equipped with the Ciare 12.00SW (except you're willing to accept high distortion from the speakers VC leaving the gap). The 3dB more output with 1W is not that much of a surprise with these parameters. You'll get more SPL with the same power from the amp, but the Ciare will give you more SPL if enough power supplied.