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Author Topic: DANLEY Sound Labs TH-115?  (Read 60607 times)

Nathan Lehouillier

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DANLEY Sound Labs TH-115?
« on: September 05, 2005, 09:55:13 pm »

I have been looking at the Danley Sound Labs TH- 115 and with the new pic
am quite puzzled. It looks to me that the horn mouth is unusually small and the woofer is mounted right inside it. Now I have not actually seen this box in person
but from the pic and the specs I am very curious. Does anyone know how this
sub stacks up to the LAB? I will be looking at possible 4 of these by Jan. and
will post all findings. Basically I will be using these for small bar shows as a
replacement for my 18" w horns that will be left for outdoor use only.
I'm hoping this sub has a more aggressive sound compared to the lab.
looking at the limited data this would be my conclusion.
Thanks,
Nathan Lehouillier
Kick Drum Sound & Lighting
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Wayne Parham

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Ones to Watch
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2005, 10:16:58 pm »


Be sure and watch the Prosound Shootout in October.  There will be several subs tested there.  Danley has been invited, so maybe he'll bring one of those, I don't know.  But I know there will be some good gear there, and it's worth watching.  More details in the ART thread here and the PSW thread here.

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Wayne Parham
π Speakers
PiSpeakers.com

Tom Danley

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Re: DANLEY Sound Labs TH-115?
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2005, 03:38:43 pm »

Hi

The TH115 is a very modestly sized bass enclosure, which uses a 15” driver in a new type of low frequency horn I developed called a Tapped Horn.
Your observation about the mouth area being small is correct, the advantage of the Tapped horn is that it allows a significantly smaller horn to be used than normal.
How you ask?
AS you make the horn mouth smaller, one finds ripples in the frequency response, which inversely coincide with peaks and dips in the impedance curve.
These reflect a greatly changing acoustic load on the driver.
With the Tapped Horn, the driver source impedance to the horn is made to change with frequency also, in a way that can largely adapt to the changing horn load, at least over the bass range.  This is done by having both sides of the driver, driving the horn but from different points on its length.
You will notice that even with one TH115, the normal ripple one would expect in a horn that small is not present.
A more extreme case is the PB-12 which has a Teeny Tiny mouth but still lacks the traditional ripple pattern.

So far as the LabSub, it was pretty much as much as I could get out of that size box and cutoff, going as far as seemed safe with driver parameters.
Even now some years later, the Lab 12 driver is one beefy driver.

The only Tapped Horn comparable in size to the Lab sub is the Vortex, also a Tapped horn which is a little smaller (42 by 42 by 22 ½ in).  I couldn’t find the measurements someone sent me of their single Lab @ 1meter but one for one the Vortex would have less ripple and greater sensitivity.
Once you had say 6 Labs (where the mouth is big) then they would be about 50% efficient and would be hard to beat electroacoustically.
Multiple Vortex’s in a 2X2 , 2X3, 3X3 array would have forward directivity due to the frontal area BUT requires a crossover below 90-100 Hz due to the spacing between outlets.
A 2X2 array would have about 10 dB of apparent gain on axis added to the sensitivity mid band in addition to a higher over all efficiency.
We do not have measurements for that case yet however.

In another thread there here is a discussion about spec’s.
The curves on our web site are TEF measurements, taken in a conservative way by driving the box in half space at 100W and at a microphone distance of 10 meters.
This removes the errors present if one measures a large speaker up close at 1 meter and the 10 meter distance is –20DB from 1 Meter but the 100W level is + 20dB from 1 Watt so the result is a conservative  1 Watt equivalent.
These are what anyone else will measure if they do the same test, no magic or BS.

Numbers are for designing so they should be accurate but listening is what really matters, I think you would be impressed with the sensitivity, sound quality, output and weight of the TH115….but how else could I feel ha ha..
Your best bet is to call Mike and see about getting some demo’s, nothing beats first hand comparisons.

Hope that helps

Tom Danley

















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Stephen Robertson

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Re: DANLEY Sound Labs TH-115?
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2005, 04:56:47 pm »

Tom Danley wrote on Tue, 06 September 2005 14:38

Hi




The only Tapped Horn comparable in size to the Lab sub is the Vortex, also a Tapped horn which is a little smaller (42 by 42 by 22 ½ in).  

Multiple Vortex’s in a 2X2 , 2X3, 3X3 array would have forward directivity due to the frontal area BUT requires a crossover below 90-100 Hz due to the spacing between outlets.




So Tom, that pic of the Vortex, is that the front of the cabinet? It looks like the access panel on a lab sub.

Does it really weigh 120#s?

What happened to the TH-212

Thanks,
steve

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Wayne Parham

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Re: DANLEY Sound Labs TH-115?
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2005, 04:24:11 am »


Very much like a scoop.  Over parts of the frequency range, the front wave and rear wave combine contructively.  Groovy, baby, yeah!

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Wayne Parham
π Speakers
PiSpeakers.com

[x]

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Re: DANLEY Sound Labs TH-115?
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2005, 12:50:03 pm »

Tom, may I ask who is currently doing your website?

Your product line is fantastic, but the web page looks like a canned design that DSL just added their own stuff to over the course of a weekend. The personal photo album, while intriguing, is organized in a very unprofessional way. It looks like your personal web site, not the website of a company that actually intends to do any business. EAW's web site doesn't post a bunch of pictures of Kenton Forsythe's personal life, and Community's web site doesn't have a bunch of pictures of Bruze Howze's personal life. Because the DSL website is so lacking in both content and visual impact, Danley Sound Labs will largely need to rely on word-of-mouth for its marketing.
I suggest that you use some of your first profits to hire a good professional design firm to handle your marketing communications. This will be a limiting factor to your success as a company if you don't do something about that web site.

Here is a design sample that I made quite some time ago:
index.php/fa/2435/0/

With the right marketing approach, you could steal quite a bit of the market share of the big guys like EAW, Nexo, and Meyer. I know marketing is a dirty word around here but you need to reach your customers somehow, and word of mouth, while always good to have, is extremely slow. You don't need to avoid marketing period, just avoid making stretched claims in your marketing. But marketing is a necessity of business, and if you want the world to know about the great things your product line is doing, you are going to have to tell them.
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Tamas Tako

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Re: DANLEY Sound Labs TH-115?
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2005, 02:27:22 pm »

Tom Danley wrote on Tue, 06 September 2005 21:38

Hi

The TH115 is a very modestly sized bass enclosure, which uses a 15” driver in a new type of low frequency horn I developed called a Tapped Horn.
Your observation about the mouth area being small is correct, the advantage of the Tapped horn is that it allows a significantly smaller horn to be used than normal.
How you ask?
AS you make the horn mouth smaller, one finds ripples in the frequency response, which inversely coincide with peaks and dips in the impedance curve.
These reflect a greatly changing acoustic load on the driver.
With the Tapped Horn, the driver source impedance to the horn is made to change with frequency also, in a way that can largely adapt to the changing horn load, at least over the bass range.  This is done by having both sides of the driver, driving the horn but from different points on its length.
You will notice that even with one TH115, the normal ripple one would expect in a horn that small is not present.
A more extreme case is the PB-12 which has a Teeny Tiny mouth but still lacks the traditional ripple pattern.

So far as the LabSub, it was pretty much as much as I could get out of that size box and cutoff, going as far as seemed safe with driver parameters.
Even now some years later, the Lab 12 driver is one beefy driver.

The only Tapped Horn comparable in size to the Lab sub is the Vortex, also a Tapped horn which is a little smaller (42 by 42 by 22 ½ in).  I couldn’t find the measurements someone sent me of their single Lab @ 1meter but one for one the Vortex would have less ripple and greater sensitivity.
Once you had say 6 Labs (where the mouth is big) then they would be about 50% efficient and would be hard to beat electroacoustically.
Multiple Vortex’s in a 2X2 , 2X3, 3X3 array would have forward directivity due to the frontal area BUT requires a crossover below 90-100 Hz due to the spacing between outlets.
A 2X2 array would have about 10 dB of apparent gain on axis added to the sensitivity mid band in addition to a higher over all efficiency.
We do not have measurements for that case yet however.

In another thread there here is a discussion about spec’s.
The curves on our web site are TEF measurements, taken in a conservative way by driving the box in half space at 100W and at a microphone distance of 10 meters.
This removes the errors present if one measures a large speaker up close at 1 meter and the 10 meter distance is –20DB from 1 Meter but the 100W level is + 20dB from 1 Watt so the result is a conservative  1 Watt equivalent.
These are what anyone else will measure if they do the same test, no magic or BS.

Numbers are for designing so they should be accurate but listening is what really matters, I think you would be impressed with the sensitivity, sound quality, output and weight of the TH115….but how else could I feel ha ha..
Your best bet is to call Mike and see about getting some demo’s, nothing beats first hand comparisons.

Hope that helps

Tom Danley






It is so good to see Tom here back again!
Please Tom, post more on this forum!
I think, we are all interrested for your new products, and your new ideas,how to use them to get the maximum out of them...
For example the Vortex you mentioned has a response graph only for 1 enclosures on your site, however the mentioned 2x2 or even 3x3 setup's sensitivity graphs would be quite interre3sting...

And please again, write here.

Tamas













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Ivan Beaver

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Re: DANLEY Sound Labs TH-115?
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2005, 03:33:40 pm »

[quote title=SRaudio wrote on Tue, 06 September 2005 16:56
So Tom, that pic of the Vortex, is that the front of the cabinet? It looks like the access panel on a lab sub.

Does it really weigh 120#s?

What happened to the TH-212

Thanks,
steve

[/quote]
The photo shows the "exit" or as Tom likes to say "Where the sound comes out". That would be the front of the cabinet. There is a grill over that hole (that does not show up on the photo).  It is also the access panel for the speaker. It is fairly heavy because there is a lot of wood inside the cabinet.  It only has the 1 driver, the rest of the weight is the wood.  It has 2 layers and lots of "twisting" going on inside it-hence the name VOrtex.  The working name was the "Twister".

The TH212 was a very early product with several products spun off of it.  The biggest problem with it is how do you move it easily, or in an install-where do you put it?  The performance is fine-it is just the packaging that is an issue.  It was built to test the theory, so it could be measured.
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Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

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Danley Sound Labs

Stephen Robertson

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Re: DANLEY Sound Labs TH-115?
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2005, 04:09:31 pm »

Could the vortex be used in a down firing configuration the way the bdeap did. Or is that still on the list of test yet to happen.

steve
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: DANLEY Sound Labs TH-115?
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2005, 05:29:39 pm »

It hasn't been tried in that configuration.  It is designed to be a stand alone sub. As you put several together you will get directivity, which will increase the level. The response if flat to 30Hz (a real -3dB), in a true 1/2 space environmnet.  It was standing alone on the edge of a parking lot facing a field, with no boundaries within 80' or so, and those were behind it.  The bdeap was relying on a extra boundary to get the extra low end.  With the bdeap the way it was loaded gave various results.  If it was down firing with a small air chamber below it, you got a deeper bass, but not as loud.  As this distance increased the low end cutoff got higher, but it got louder. I would ususally use 4-6" off the wall (facing the wall) or floor (downfiring) in most applications.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs
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