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[Dave Stevens]

There are a lot of other people in that same boat.  Not everyone can get a few grand a week to tour, especially at the lower end of the scale.  It can be common to spec a grand a week or so plus PD for accomodations on the club level.

What you are paid matters what you bring to the gig, and I don't mean in an equipment sense.  I mean comfort factor for the act, skill set, ease of dealing with you personally on the road.  It's based more on those factors than what to gross of the gig might be.

The way to handle it is to approach the management and ask for a raise.  They may give it to you, or that may put you into the next level of guys, so to speak and they might go looking for either someone else at the current price level, or someone with a bigger name in the increased price level.

Dave

[Dave Stevens]

Matt Leonard wrote on Sun, 31 July 2005 16:58

I've seen a lot of guys on the board that somehow bypassed that whole world - the only tours they've done have been with major acts, who consequently have major budgets.

My take on that is somewhat different.  I don't think many here have only done major acts.  And those of use that do, most of us did start out in clubs and are still in tune with what happens at various levels of the industry.  

Of the 50k that come here, less than 100 (really probably more like less than 20) work with large acts exclusively.  There are another few hundred that work for regional providers that are well established working the day to day life of a regional.  There are perhaps less than 50 that work for national providers, probably less.

By far, most that read and post here these days are local or part time or work exclusively for acts.  Unfortunatly they aren't really in tune with what happens in the touring world because they either aren't part of it or don't do it enough to be dialed into it.  That's not a slam on those folks.  Of the 50k or so here, we are lucky if there are a couple thousand full time pros with professional level experience reading and more importantly posting, on a regular basis.

Dave

[Mike McNany]

4k wrote on Sun, 31 July 2005 17:34

alright, the details: this is my 4th tour with them/ the other tours have been as tour manager and FOH, this one is just FOH. their settlements are around $6k a night +merch; we are on a tour bus (like all the other tours), there is no monitor engineer, just me, a TM and guitar tech. comes out to roughly $150/show (5 shows/wk for 4 weeks)not including $10 per diem and 3 headlining shows (which i am not paid for additionally) on days off. in response to the guy that said i should know what i get paid if i've done 10k cap+ tours; those were for a different band under diff circumstances and i was paid almost twice as much. also, no one to this point has really discussed how to address this with the band/ management, which would help me greatly as someone who is not particularly assertive.

I waited for those with far more experience to reply first but felt some issues needed brought up, maybe in a simpler manner.

The factors you need to consider and discuss with the management include:

1. Your time away from family and family obligations/expenses.

2. Does the management pay you as an independent contractor or do you cover your medically, payroll taxes, unemployment taxes, ect. Likely as an independent contractor so they are saving a BUNCH there! You get injured, tough luck.

3. Do they routinely provide acceptable lodging OTHER than on the bus between travel times. I.e., comfortable non-vibrating beds ;>)

4. Is there any food/beverage provided to you at venues or during travel to offset the extremely LOW per diem you are getting (otherwise, THAT should be doubled for FOOD only without blinking).

5. What other personal expenses are covered by the tour, if any? Laundry, ect.

6. If a show gets cancelled do they cut your money $150?

Since there are some shows you AREN'T being paid for, that means in reality you are a weekly salaried (likely contract) employee. They are grossing $30K a week (plus merch). Asking $1K a week (and more per diem) is reasonable BUT you have to allow for the tour expenses (bus rental, driver, fuel, advertising, band gear repair/consumables, any lodging/food provided, band management costs including elsewhere like acountants fees). By addressing these points with whoever controls the money, you can show you understand a bit of the business side of things, they can address those expenses with you, and you can ask for a reasonable increase in COMPENSATION. Compensation is every benefit you receive to live on and/or bank.

If they are renting the bus and paying a bus driver, that and fuel is a BIG expense. But $10 a day to eat on is ONE average meal at a mediocre dining facility. Maybe they feel that a breakfast, lunch, & dinner of one McDonalds Happy Meal is appropriate for weeks on end (although the toys can be entertaining ;>). Even Rachel Ray needs "$40 a day" to live on (a great Food TV show in the US). 12 years ago the non high cost area per diem for any Federal employee was bumped to $28 a day, just for an example.

Of course, none of the above takes into account any "expensive habits" or "band entertaintment" costs, but those should NOT be of concern to you in seeking compemnsation. Those are band compensation.

Been on the road a lot, just not band touring,

Mike McNany

[Brennan Houser]

Here's my take.  Everyone out here makes there own deal.  You have to ask yourself if that rate is worth the amount of service you provide to your client.  If the answer is yes, continue on and enjoy your tour.  If no, approach the management, or whoever holds the purse strings, and have a discussion.  

I wouldn't start with "well, this is what most guys that do this make...blah....".  Instead, outline what you have to offer, and make the arguement that your skill set is worth an increase in pay.  This seems to go over better with the money guys.

Generally speaking, if the band can afford a bus, and they are happy with what you are doing for them, your rate is low.  The other thing I would consider is your per diem rate.  The standard rate for US touring has been $35 US a day for the last ten years.

Ultimately, back to my first statement.  You make your own deal.  So make one that works for you, or move on.

[Marc Schwartz]

Good mixing skills will only get you so far. It takes a lot more to become successful (read well paid) in this business. Be honest with yourself and make an assessment of your business skills. It takes willingness to do whatever it takes to get the job done, especially where salary negotiations are concerned. You have to be able to justify to someone else (usually artist management) why they should pay you more, rather than find someone cheaper. The band has to like you, and like what you do for them, and that is an important factor in this equation, but it is not the whole deal. How much responsiblity do you have for the production? Are you constantly on the phone advancing shows with venues and sound providers? Do you provide any of your own personal mics or outboard gear? Are you prompt to arrive on all soundchecks,  bus calls, and shows? Do you troubleshoot problems with venue and provider staff and work effectively together with them to solve them? These are just a few of the things that really determine how good you are and what you are worth. Once you have taken a personal inventory, establish your "walk away" position, and then, if you don't get what you want, you can always leave and find another gig. Just my .02 YMMV.

-Marc

[telejeff]

Your salary is directly proportional to the SPL.

[Andy Peters]

telejeff wrote on Tue, 02 August 2005 07:14

Your salary is directly proportional to the SPL.

... then I should've gotten a zillion dollars for this one show I did at the Whiskey 'bout ten years ago.  It was a packed label showcase and that night, my guys really were the Best Band On The Planet.  House guy came up to me and said, "Dude, you're baking my PA!" First and only time that's ever happened.  I laughed the same laugh Theo Van Rock laughed when I told him he was baking my PA at a Rollins Band show.  It was pretty loud.

I blame the pot of coffee I drank at dinner before the show.  I was pacing back and forth at the console before the show began.  I don't do that any more.

A lot of the label people made a point of coming up to me and saying that "this room has never sounded this good!" and other such platitudes.

-- a

PS: if the house guy at the Whiskey at that time is reading this, dude, I'm sorry.

[Dave "Bez" Berry]

Dude, if you can afford to do it, want to do it and can do it, why not?

Just ask for more next time, and if you've done a good job they won't tell you to get lost, they'll tell you that they can't afford you. Then you meet em half way.

[ProSoundWeb Community]