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[Marjan Milosevic]

Hi Bogdan,

I always touth that this two will be suitable for tops for labsub.
ftp://ftp.turbosound.com/datasheets/legacy%20products/tms4.p df
ftp://ftp.turbosound.com/datasheets/legacy%20products/tms2a. pdf

Beside the fact that I don't know how it looks inside, i think that HD15 with hornloaded 10 and 1 inch on top of it will be most cost effective way to do it.

Bogdan.
I am also using PSD2002. For that cheap driver it does not sound very bad.
Where do you cross them. I am crossing it at 1800 Hz and always blowing one or two of my 12 tops.

What kind of bulb (lamp) can be used for protecting them?
I am talking car bulbs 12V but what Watage.

[David Trotter]

I'm designing a Lab top box at the moment...

Its gona be about 700mm deep, 10degree trap. Bass is using the new PD 15" neo driver PDN.15SB40 in a HD15/turbo style folded horn. a 70-75cm horn should support full horn loading to around 100hz. Need to model it in horn resp then try and fit it into a trap box which is gona be a little tricky. Any help would be appreciated!

Above that i'm gonna use porn horn 12" and 1.4" maybe with 2 bullet tweeters (cos i think they're great). Tight 40degree dispersion, 1k rms a box and all neo drivers. It'l be quite tall but very loud..

[Joe Jones]

I've finished one DR300, with Delta Pro 12 and two Selenium 210s. I've only tried it in the backyard so far but it absolutely crushes my old cabs, Peavey SP4s with two fifteens plus horn. After I get the second done I'll let you know how they do on a gig.

[The Guy]

I'm working on an M4 driver based top cabinet to go with my LABs~ 4" and 1.5".  I'm having a problem getting it down to a reasonable size (width of the LAB.)  I'll need a midbass cab between it and the LAB, but I'm thinking the LAB has met it's match with the M4.  

Any thoughts?


JB

[Al Limberg]

Yep   works for me!  I didn't bother to worry about getting my M4 driver onto a horn the width of the Lab since the system ends up 4-way and I 'center cluster' the subs anyway.  My low mids (sorry for those who have read this 80 times before) are a modified Community Boxer 2x15 with JBL 2035 drivers (special thanx to Jeff Robinson for critical design advice)  with a matching footprint top cab consisting of an M4 mounted to a Community PC1594 and a Community s90-428 2" throat 'super 90' horn.  
The only concern for a smaller approach is that a low mid is required regardless of the horn used for the M4.

Al

p.s.  To those for whom size matters, a single boxer/M4/s90 stack is 30" wide, 45" deep and 92" tall ?;o)

[Bogdan Popescu]

Centauri wrote on Wed, 08 June 2005 09:13

With the smooth curves on the DR boxes, I would think midrange quality would be fine, however I am not sure about horizontal dispersion control on these boxes - I would want to listen to and evaluate one before committing to the build. Modifying the MT122 for 15's wouldn't work as the usable response would not be high enough to crossover to a horn.  Even the MT122 uses a 2" driver.  If using horn loaded 15s, you would still need a smaller midrange driver ..... which brings you to the Xtro. Cheers Graeme

  How can be mid-range OK from a horn "around the corner" and not be ok on a horn that is almost "front-loaded" ???
I intend to use one of the PD 15" that is recommended from the producer to work excellent with a 2"
Besides i intend to use 2" from Precision D.
Yeah, i would be also happy to listen this boxes, but i don't have any chance from my location.

Besides all that, how can i model a horn for the 2" ??? ...i intend to build it in the box from wood... ?!?!?!?

***
Marjan,
As i distribute Turbosound i looked at the TMS for some time and i see a big problem: "the TurboMid device" that is covering 250 to 4000 Hz.
For me it is not a solution because i have to go with 2 way top's ...budget thing...

Thank you all for the great input
...i see a lot of people trying some designing  

Bogdan

[Graeme Goodacre [Centauri]

Bogdan P. wrote on Thu, 09 June 2005 14:37

How can be mid-range OK from a horn "around the corner" and not be ok on a horn that is almost "front-loaded" ??? I intend to use one of the PD 15" that is recommended from the producer to work excellent with a 2"

Driver size and loading.  Most of Bill's DRs use small diameter drivers, which allows smaller throats and loads the top end better - the DRs also use two flare rates, the initial flare being tuned higher to get better high frequency loading.  Bill also usually specs a driver which has a natural rising response at higher frequencies.  When you fully horn load a driver, you increase its efficiency the most at the lower end of the horn's passband.  A small throat will give better top end response, but with a 15 path length cancellations come into play.  You can get a wider response by using a short horn, but the overall efficiency is lower - its all about tradeoffs. Hornloaded 8" drivers to 1" horns - easy.  Hornloaded 12" drivers to 2" horns - easy.  Hornloaded 15" to 2" - very difficult.

Cheers
Graeme

[Walt de Jong]

Have a look at DAS ST-215, this is a 2x15"+ 2" hornloaded cabinet.

Best regards,

Walt

[Graeme Goodacre [Centauri]

Hi Walt,

I hadn't seen that box, and it took a little digging to find info on it as it has been discontinued without a comparable replacement - maybe wasn't up to par?

A few things I have noticed with it.   The dispersion narrows significantly below the crossover point, which tends to increase the level on axis.  They utilised high sensitivity drivers with a rising response and small Xmax.  Even though the driver can reach 104db sensitivity, two of them in this box can only manage 108, which indicates there is very little horn loading going on at the top end.  From the photos, drawings and impedance chart, it looks like they used a short 200Hz horn and assisted it with reflex loading around 160Hz.  Their own controller crosses the box at 125Hz, I would suspect due to running out of excursion.

As I mentioned before, it is about tradeoffs, and in this case the tradeoffs may have sealed its fate, and this box certainly wouldn't be much use with a LabSub.  I think your choice to go with the 8" midrange is more appropriate.

Cheers
Graeme

[Joe Jones]

Without measuring gear I can't make anything other than subjective comparisons between the DR300 and my dual 15/horn Peaveys, but for what its worth- first, to get the two sounding the same volume I had to cut the board output to the amp channel driving the DR300 by about 10dB, at least according to the dB markings on the master out sliders. After doing that the DR300 just sounds better. The dispersion is really different too. With the Peavey the midrange is really strong if you stand right in front but it dies if you move only a few feet to the side. The DR300 sounds much more uniform from side to side. But if you stand behind them the Peavy is a lot louder, so the DR300 definetely keeps the sound out in front where you want it and not in back where you don't. DR300 number two is coming along, I might get it out next week. Havn't tried it with subs yet, peaveySP218, should be interesting.